80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 1 Mar, 2016 07:13 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
The truism, "follow the money" has much credence here.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 07:13 am
"Not since the rupture of 1964, when conservatives seized power from their moderate rivals and nominated Barry M. Goldwater of Arizona, has a major party faced such a crisis of identity.

“History is repeating itself,” said the historian Richard Norton Smith. “The party changed then as permanently and profoundly as can be in politics, effectively becoming two parties.” http://nyti.ms/1QTdcE5
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 07:48 am
Great night for Clinton with Sanders showing he's the real thing, but not really enough. Sanders still has no traction with Hispanics and can't move the needle in the South. I do think Trump could put Ohio and Pennsylvania in play big time, especially if Trump goes with Kasich as the VP.
revelette2
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 08:01 am
@engineer,
I'm curious how (if) Hillary will deal with the insults, I hope she don't go the Rubio route, he has lost it.

The Social Science Behind Marco Rubio’s Dick Joke

http://cdn.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/01110228/RubioSign-256x171.jpg
engineer
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 08:10 am
@revelette2,
I think she will go the Fiorina route, righteous indignation.
revelette2
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 08:41 am
@engineer,
I am not sure that will work either, maybe she should go the Haley route, condescending.

"Bless your heart,"

I don't care for her at all, but it does go over better than acting all offended.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 08:43 am
@revelette2,
Make that 'little heart'.
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 09:41 am
@ossobuco,
Well if Trump goes that way toward Hillary, she has a few arrows in the quiver. Don't forget that women are at least 50% of the vote, and by and large they don't go for this kind of schoolyard stuff. Plus Hillary is obviously more versed in just about everything, she can pull out an anecdote or switch gears on Trump on policy in mid debate. Trump fans won't mind that he gets screwed up on the details, but in national debates that's just the kind of thing that sinks candidates. Remember when Romney said Obama didn't call Benghazi a terrorist attack and the moderator, Candy Crowley, had to straighten Romney out?

I think the debates will have more than a few of those moments, when it becomes obvious that Trump doesn't belong in the Oval Office.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 09:51 am
@Blickers,
I think you misunderstood me. I was answering revelette re her answering engineer -
http://able2know.org/topic/275175-226#post-6137066

I just added 'little' to her words, putting it in front of heart, basically kidding re Hillary saying that to Trump.

Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 10:06 am
@ossobuco,
I got the joke you were making, I was not disagreeing with your answer. I just thought I would run with some ideas about how the debates would turn out if Trump takes this tactic toward Hillary.

Incidentally, I'm not completely sure this whole Trump thing isn't a hijacking of the Republican Party by Hillary, that is, if Trump was not in on this with Hillary from the start. During the first Republican debate, Carly Fiorina said there was a phone call between Trump and Hillary a couple of weeks before Trump decided to run, and Trump and the Clintons have been friends for years. Trump was getting to be so popular that anything directly said against him would work against the candidate who said it, so the idea dropped. But it does make a lot of sense.

I mean, after the 2012 election when Romney got the highest percentage of the white vote ever, but still lost, the Republicans were saying that the GOP had to reach out to minorities to survive. So what's the first thing Trump says when he kicks off his campaign? Build a wall on the Mexican border because most of those Mexicans are murderers and rapists, mixed in with a small percentage of otherwise decent people. Talk about trying to lose the necessary Hispanic vote.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 10:40 am
@Blickers,
'K, I get it now.

Yes, I've thought before that Trump is a plant of some sort (don't get me started riffing, I know thousands of latin plant names, including many trumpet vines), thought it off and on for months, but, then again, I gather that historically he's not the least racist and goofy person around, so maybe not a put on. Re Hillary starting it, she may be on the tricky side, but not that tricky. He, though, might be an self intended plant. Or, not. I'll pick not, but I still can see wondering.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 11:12 am
@Blickers,
In a debate between Hillary and Donald, Hillary will win hand's down.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 11:14 am
@ossobuco,
If anyone has read up on him, his negative racist and every other ist statements are part and partial of the man himself. He has been sued several times for lying to African Americans and Hispanics regarding renting, he settled and promised not to do it again.

Inside the government’s racial bias case against Donald Trump’s company, and how he fought it
revelette2
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 11:39 am
@revelette2,
Donald Trump Was Once Sued By Justice Department For Not Renting To Blacks

Quote:
But Trump has been called out several times for racial insensitivity by former co-workers and civil rights activists. In 1991, Trump was accused of making racial slurs against black people in a book written by John R. O'Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, called “Trumped!" O'Donnell wrote that Trump once said, in reference to a black accountant at Trump Plaza, “laziness is a trait in blacks.” He also told O’Donnell: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day."

Trump called O'Donnell a disgruntled employee but he didn't deny allegations made in the book during an interview with Playboy magazine in 1999:


Quote:
After the rape of a white female jogger in Central Park in 1989, Trump aroused controversy in New York's black community when he took out full-page newspaper ads calling for the death penalty for the African-American teenage suspects -- who were all later exonerated. One of the defendant’s lawyers, Colin Moore, compared Trump's stance to the racist attitudes expressed in the 1930s during the infamous “Scottsboro Boys” case. Trump tried to mend relations by visiting a black woman who had been raped and thrown off the roof of a building in the hospital, promising to pay her medical expenses, according to several news reports.


Quote:
Later that year, Trump caught flack for his comments attacking affirmative action on NBC’s two-hour special “The Race,” telling host Bryant Gumbel: “If I was starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black because I really do believe they have the actual advantage today.” That remark was derided by Orlando Sentinel columnist David D. Porter, who opined: "Too bad Trump can't get his wish. Then he'd see that being educated, black and over 21 isn't the key to the Trump Tower. You see there's still that little ugly problem of racism."

Quote:

Yet the most damaging episode in the saga of Trump's fractured relationship with the black community came in 1973, when his family's real-estate company, Trump Management Corporation, was sued by the Justice Department for alleged racial discrimination. At the time, Trump was the company's president. Just last month, at Trump's Comedy Central roast, Snoop Dogg referenced the case by joking about Trump's potential 2012 run for the White House: "Why not? It wouldn't be the first time he pushed a black family out of their home."

The case alleged that the Trump Management Corporation had discriminated against blacks who wished to rent apartments in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. The government charged the corporation with quoting different rental terms and conditions to blacks and whites and lying to blacks that apartments were not available, according to reports of the lawsuit.

Trump responded in characteristic fashion -- holding a press conference to call the charges “absolutely ridiculous.” He told the New York Times: “We never have discriminated and we never would. There have been a number of local actions against us and we’ve won them all. We were charged with discrimination and we proved in court that we did not discriminate.”

He later took the uncommon step of suing the Justice Department for defamation, seeking $100 million in damages. His lawyer was Roy Cohn, the infamous former Joseph McCarthy aide, who was known for his hard-ball tactics.

Cohn called up the federal official in charge of the case -- J. Stanley Pottinger, the head of DOJ’s Civil Rights division -- to demand that the lawyer handling the lawsuit be fired. Pottinger told The Huffington Post that his reaction at the time was “I don’t think so. That’s up to me and that’s not going to happen. I called [lawyer] Donna [Goldstein] into my office and said, ‘Keep up the good work.’” The suit, which Pottinger called a “media gimmick done for local consumption,” was dismissed and the judge criticized Cohn for “wasting time and paper from what I consider to be the real issues” - discriminating against blacks in apartment rentals.

Two years later, Trump Management settled the case, promising not to discriminate against blacks, Puerto Ricans and other minorities. As part of the agreement, Trump was required to send its list of vacancies in its 15,000 apartments to a civil-rights group, giving them first priority in providing applicants for certain apartments, according to a contemperaneous New York Times account. Trump, who emphasized that the agreement was not an admission of guilt, later crowed that he was satisfied because it did not require them to “accept persons on welfare as tenants unless as qualified as any other tenant.”

But the company didn’t sufficiently fulfill its promise, because three years later, the Justice Department charged Trump Management with continuing to discriminate against blacks through such tactics as telling them that apartments were not available. As part of its demands, the government asked that victims of discrimination be compensated and that Trump Management continue to report to the Justice Department on its compliance. Cohn lashed out, according to the New York Times, claiming that the court motion was “nothing more than a rehash of complaints by a couple of planted malcontents.”

But the problem persisted, prompting New York City’s human rights commission to regularly dispatch investigators to search for examples of discriminatory rental practices in Trump-owned buildings. Trump was not amused, telling the New York Times that the investigation was a “form of horrible harassment.”

ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 12:29 pm
@revelette2,
I know he has a history of racism, I have read up on him. Reread what I said.. essentially that he is racist and goofy, not the least of those people who are.
That is actually dry understatement, with my knowing he is very racist.

Meantime, I just finished reading Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone, an article I agree with that makes me sad for the state of US.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/revenge-of-the-simple-how-george-w-bush-gave-rise-to-trump-20160301
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 12:40 pm
@revelette2,
If people hasn't figured out by now that Trump is a racial bigot, they never will. His wall speaks volumes about his bigotry.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 12:59 pm
@Blickers,
Your theory is as far from Occam's Razor as one might step. Trump has been dabbling in presidential politics for years and he's a meglomaniac. The Fiorina claim is more simply understood as a means to denigrate both Trump and Clinton (and what sort of evidence is one phone call where she has no idea whatsoever of content?).
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 01:37 pm
@blatham,
Perhaps, but how many presidential candidates have invited their likely opponents to their wedding? Trump and the Clintons go way back to the nineties, probably because Trump likes to associate himself with winners. Trump is not as clueless about current events as you might think-back in the eighties he predicted the breakup of the Soviet Union before almost anyone else. I don't find it far fetched at all that Trump, who might well be a racist and meglomaniac, (or at least the most storied self-promoter since PT Barnum), has decided that the present day Republican party is in the hands of cretins and is simply incapable of running the country and keeping his money machine going.

Even if he is a racist, he can't be so stupid as to be unaware that this will be a huge hindrance to him getting elected. Yet the first thing he came out with was an anti Hispanic rant-that's what got his candidacy started. Since after 2012 even the GOP realized that they needed to do minority outreach to have a hope of capturing the White House, and Hispanics were more amenable to the GOP cause than African Americans, this statement only makes sense in the context of someone who wants to bring the GOP so obviously far over to the right that they are unelectable. Shortly after that, Trump said that minorities love him, the KKK loves him, everyone loves him. Now the KKK actually endorsed him and he's accepting the endorsement. None of these things make any sense unless this guy is trying unmask the racism the Republicans have always played footsie with but always employed clever ways to keep from being an issue. I don't think Trump ever figured he could get this far, I think his plan was to make other Republicans go along publicly with his racism so that they will be hopelessly vulnerable come the general election, but his ego is saying, "What the hell-let's play this gig for as long as it lasts".
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  -1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 01:48 pm
And Hillary had Vince Foster killed. How far back do you want to go?
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 2 Mar, 2016 01:52 pm
@woiyo,
I'm not hypothesizing anything that wasn't pretty much said on the first Republican debate way back when-that Trump really wasn't a Republican and the sincerity of his candidacy was called into question. Then when any other candidate got critical of Trump onstage, their poll numbers took a dive the next day. After that, the Republicans stopped that line of debate.
 

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