Passenger Plane Crashes in French Alps.

@hawkeye10,

Actually, the German air force and the German naval air force are trained at Lufthansa flight schools as well. (And the ESA pilots/astronauts.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Just a teeny insert here--Germany's decision to ratchet nuke power down is a really good idea because the report of power availability and costs are not one of rising but falling costs. Nuke poer was less than 20% f germany's total powere and they havent even begun ANY exploration in the sed basins that are guaranteed gas and oil basins. clean burning gas will be the interim fuel as Germany ramps its desire to 80% clean poer by 2050.

germany's real challenge is POWER GRID infrastructure, not energy at source.

M King Hubbert's "decline of fossil fuel" is , in the long term correct, he just had the "peak petroleum yers " off by 120 to 150 years.

The entire world has enough gas and oil in these SS basins reachable by Fracking to make gas as cheap as coca cola. Thats bad thing for oil stock.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Actually, the German air force and the German naval air force are trained at Lufthansa flight schools as well. (And the ESA pilots/astronauts.)

Does not change that I read that they will not hire anyone above 27, aka new to the industry. Also military pilots get more than flight experience, they also get such things as contact with stress, learning to work on a team, and learning to follow orders.

You gotta admitt after these murders that having pilots who follow orders sounds like a good thing. Lufthansa however for what ever reason has no interest in military forged pilots.

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@farmerman,

We have a thread for Germanys energy misadventure.

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the theory that this guy went postal, that he had massive coping and rage issues but no mental illness, is rapidly winning the day. The trigger seems to be that GF told him both that she was pregnant and that she was leaving him (who's baby it is we dont know) and he took it out on Germanwings because he was pissed that he did not get the job postings he wanted and because of all of the "Tomato Andy" comments.

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@hawkeye10,

It has a flash point between 40c to 60c, but that is the vapour . We used to have fun on a freezing night by lighting a little fire and using jet fuel to put it out by pouring a heap on . It actually took a lot of calculations to get it right and was quite dangerous if you got it wrong . Wood burns somewhere between 200c-250c and jet fuel has an open air burning temp between 250c-320c . The temp at which the liquid turns to vapour and ignites in a moment is around 200c-300c . The things we do when we are young, reckless and drunk .

Jet fuel burning produces temps between 800c-1000c and it is the difference from the liquid ignition temp (200c-300c) to the burning temp (800c-1000c) that produces the energy . Some may have worked out from that, a jet engines turbine operating temp is between 800c - 1000c .

The temp of the burning grass (wood) and fuel would have most certainly be below 1000c . The debris size (aluminium confetti) is due to the severe forces on impact . Aluminium melts at 650c but thin parts can effectively 'burn', that is they will change chemically .

As you can see, a high impact and burning crash seriously reduce the metallurgy options for determining a cause . Thank Australia for black boxes .

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@Ionus,

Ya, but what happens when you drive a plane into a ravine constructed of stone? Will the heat reflect off of the stone and burn above 1000c?

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http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s1501008.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/img/2005/tribute/david-warren_01.jpg

Quote:

Every plane now has on it something invented by an Australian, a black box flight recorder. But it’s not manufactured in Australia. Why not?

In 1934 David Warrens father was killed in the first major air disaster in Australia. The reason for the crash remained unclear. 19 years later, in 1953 David joined a research team investigating a series of plane crashes. He started thinking about ways to find out what had happened in planes.

It was a simple but brilliant idea. And what did the aircraft industry do? The Black box flight recorder was rejected by Australian authorities.

In fact it was the the Britsih who first got excited about it 5 years later. In 1960 the black box began to be manufactured in the UK and the USA, and in 1967 Australia at last caught on and became the first country to make flight data and voice recording mandatory.

David Warren, inventor of the black box, we salute you and we apologise. We’re sorry we didn’t listen the first time.

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@hawkeye10,

I think not . There is the fireball when fuel spills onto the hot engine parts during the first second of the crash, then there is a burning of residual fuel and aircraft flammables which I would suspect to be quite small fires, then there is a grass fire . Secondary fires like a grass fire are quite common with aircraft crashes and they rarely significantly damage the aircraft parts .

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@Ionus,

None of the (published) videos showed signs of fire nor did investigators report of such.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I am not aware of what you have seen, but I have seen pictures of burning wreckage, the ground around the impact site is blackened from small fires, probably grass and shrubs, and the initial reports we got here said the area was burnt .

Quote:

None of the (published) videos showed signs of fire

I suggest you take another look with someone who knows what they are looking at .

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@Ionus,

Unless there was practically no fuel left there had to be a fire correct? There are I believe legal limits to how low airlines can run their tanks(Bladders, whatever) .

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Unless there was practically no fuel left there had to be a fire correct?

You are correct . There will always be a fire with an impact crash . An aircraft has to have a reserve amount of fuel, this depends on the total distance flown, holding reserves at the destination and distance to an alternate but just to confuse you, it is different for every destination airport .

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I have a scenario that does not involve suicide and fits all of the facts KNOWN AT THIS TIME .

They had just reached cruising height when the pressure differential caused the nose wheel seal to pop . The Captain left the cockpit . The cockpit depressurised slowly .

The Captain returned and the co-pilot, disorientated moved the switch to lock out the Captain . The captain, thinking he had been deliberately locked out, never returned to the entry panel to enter the code . At the time he was supposed to be re-entering the code, he is heard smashing on the door, probably with a fire extinguisher, but at least with something metal .

The co-pilot has slumped forward in his harness, just pushing the column forward enough for a steep rate of descent . The forces feedback from the controls keep the column hard up against the co-pilot . His breathing is heard because he is struggling in the thin air . He never recovers in time .

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"Out of respect for the victims of flight 4U 9525, Lufthansa is cancelling the celebrations planned for April 15th on the 60th anniversary of its existence," the company announced today.
Instead, Lufthansa will take part in the national day of mourning on April 17th at Cologne Cathedral, where relatives and friends of those killed will also be present.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

The source said those doctors -- an eye doctor and neuropsychologist -- deemed him unfit to work recently. Both doctors came to the same conclusion that he had psychological issues, the source said.

The source had earlier told CNN that Lubitz had complained about vision problems and had gone to see an eye doctor. The eye doctor, the source said, had diagnosed a psychosomatic disorder and had given him an "unfit for work" note.

This CNN-report (source for above quote) gives some more details, several German media reported similar.

NB.: we don't have specialist called "neuropsychologist" in Germany - they are here "Neurologists" (usually: "specialist for psychiatry and neurology". Psychologists can't give 'sick notes'.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Francois Hollande has contradicted an earlier claim relatives may have to wait months for their loved ones to be identified. In Berlin he said today: "The French interior minister confirmed that by the end of the week at the latest it will be possible to identify all of the victims thanks to the DNA samples which were taken." ("Le ministre de l'Intérieur français a confirmé que d'ici au plus tard la fin de la semaine, il sera possible d'identifier toutes les victimes grâce aux prélèvements ADN qui ont été faits")

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@Walter Hinteler,

Always entertaining to read those 'almost translated' third-hand news pieces. Have to wonder whether it was the girlfriend, source or reporter who messed up the details - or if it's a classic telephone game.

I wonder what an "eye doctor" is supposed to be.

We've got a number of different specialties related to diseases of the eye and different specialists who might address injuries to the eye. None of them are qualified to make a diagnosis of psychosomatic disorder.

Neuropsychology is a fairly important specialty group here. Not nearly enough of them. The lengthy post-degree residency periods put people off. A good friend has a paediatric neuropsychology subspeciality - she is often on call to consult with surgeons contemplating the outcomes of various brain surgeries.

Psychiatry is not in favour due to the inclination of those specialists to medicate rather than treat.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

I wonder what an "eye doctor" is supposed to be.

Should be an ophthalmologist in English (it's the literal translation of the German "Augenarzt")

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@ehBeth,

You have to be a specialist in psychiatry before you can 'add' neurology.
Many psychiatrists/neurologists have specialised in psychotherapy as well - which isn't liked by the psychologists a lot.

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Passenger Plane Crashes in French Alps.

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