Passenger Plane Crashes in French Alps.

@hawkeye10,

Well, as said, I'm not an aircraft accident expert at all.
Thanks for your expertise - you really should them in France to stop searching for the black box.

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@Walter Hinteler,

So far as I know only the pilots groups and the killers home village folk are claiming that we dont know who crashed the plane. That is because the evidence is so solid that the chances that he did not for all intents and purposes vanish to zero.

I guess you cant blame these people for trying to convince you that you dont know what you know, but I would have thought you would not be susceptible to such irrationality.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

So far as I know only the pilots groups and the killers home village folk are claiming that we dont know who crashed the plane.

You seem to have limited access to sources. (That "kiler's home village" [killers - how many have there been?] is a town since 1291, has 40,000 inhabitants)

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@Walter Hinteler,

You are grasping for straws now. Why? National pride? Rest assured I am not claiming that his german nationality drove these murders. I am also not really blaming this german company, because they are one of the better airlines, all airlines need to change their practices now that they cant count on militaries to train and weed.

EDIT: I started seeing about 15 years ago aviation experts voicing concern that airlines are not adapting to their pilots increasingly not being forged in the military.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter, allow me to apologize for our resident windbag. He is intellectual curiosity limited, and needs to think an entire complex situation can be solved in 30 minutes. Absent of facts, he simply invents a situation that conforms to his world weary view. We call it the Archie Bunker Syndrome.

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@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

Walter, allow me to apologize for our resident windbag. He is intellectual curiosity limited, and needs to think an entire complex situation can be solved in 30 minutes. Absent of facts, he simply invents a situation that conforms to his world weary view. We call it the Archie Bunker Syndrome.

bitching about the personalities of those voicing opinions is what one does when they cant dispute the arguments being made. As it happens aviation safety has long been an interest of mine, and while I have not spoken of this interest often at A2K I will go up against anyone on facts and evidence.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

You are grasping for straws now.

????? I'm neither defending nor accusing someone. And I'm not involved in the investigation nor I'm in any position to be accused of being related to this tragic incident.

I do admit that I some feelings all those victims and their relatives and friends, not only because e.g. 16 pupils and two teachers lived only half an hour drive away from here, and we mourn 50 deaths from our state alone.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

The problem with depression is the stigma attached, people don't seek help. The co-pilot wasn't evil he was mentally ill, and attitudes towards mental illness need to change so that people don't feel ashamed about seeking treatment. Condemning him won't change attitudes and won't go anywhere to stopping this sort of incident happening again, maybe not an aeroplane, but a car or a coach or a lorry.

It's a tragedy all round, and I imagine it must be far worse for his parents?

I am sorry for having glossed over the very real pain felt by those who suffer from depression. My comment was for murder suicide in general.

However, there is a disconnect between the solitary act of suicide and the inclusion of 149 others, not to mention the families of those victims, none of whom bore any responsibility for his pain. Can God forgive him? I think so. But it will take lifetimes to erase the heartache.

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@hawkeye10,

Some of the rest of us are interested in aviation safety as well. Don't be presumptuous that we aren't. I come from a heavy aviation family.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Some of the rest of us are interested in aviation safety as well. Don't be presumptuous that we aren't. I come from a heavy aviation family.

Never did. I have often been accused of claiming to be an expert in everything, and while I am a generalist and not a specialist this is not really true. I have a lot of interests and things that I have been paying attention to for years or decades, but I dont claim to know a lot about everything. I would be shocked if I comment on more than .05% of the subjects that come up here, but those that I do comment on I usually know either a little or a lot about. Aviation safety I started being interested in during the rash of hijackings during the 70's. It really picked up again after 9/11. Other parts of aviation also interest me, I am a lifetime big time rail enthusiast so naturally I pay attention to the competition.

I have not commented on these subjects much on A2K, but then again I dont recall them coming up very often. If I am right that the islamic terrorists have gone back to air terror then we will be talking a lot more about it in the future.

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@hawkeye10,

I've long understood terror is one of the modes* for groups who can't afford to raise armies, at least at the start. It will be with us a long time unless some wave of good will and understanding crops up. That'll be after I'm gone. Anyway, don't take this horrendous crash as a terror thing.

On rail, that may be a rare point of agreement, but I'm particular about that too.

*there are many

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@ossobuco,

I agree.

It's been stated that this was "not" a Terrorist act, that nothing was found to suggest that it was, though off course the Internet is overloaded with the suggestion he converted last year.

This is devastating because this person's selfishness of wanting to "die" in the sky, as that was his dream, his love that he would no longer be able to do in the near future, killed 149 or so people from that decision.

It's one thing to decide to end your life.

It's another to selfishly take so many people with you including young children...

This person cared for no one but himself, regardless of his illness.

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

It's been stated that this was "not" a Terrorist act

Which is meaningless before the investigation has barely begun, when we dont know what it is. people and governments make claims all the that they cant substantiate, you are supposed to be smart enough to ignore the claims.

We know that the FO plowed an airbus 360 into a mountain on purpose, we dont know why....anyone who claims that they do know why is lying to you.

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So it turns out the the 630 hours this guy had flying the 360 might also include substantial flight training time. That 8 hours a week on average per week flying that I calculated might be massively overstated.

Hopefully Germanwings releases his employment record, though I have a feeling that German laws dont allow for this.

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@hawkeye10,

It has been "stated" that this was not a Terrorist act.

Just thought that I would repeat that, as that's factual, you know, it was "stated"......

They have been to his place, taken away items, if they found "something" there maybe, would be "no comment" at all. To however, state that they have found nothing to suggest that it was, suggests well, that they found nothing to suggest it was.

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Quote:

For my clinic patients, it was shameful to be mentally ill. But to engage in antisocial behavior as a way of life? Not so bad.

I think my patients were on to something. Bad behavior—even suicidal behavior—is not the same as depression. It is a truism in psychiatry that depression is underdiagnosed. But as a psychiatrist confronted daily with “problem” patients in the general hospital where I work, I find that depression is also overdiagnosed. Even doctors invoke “depression” to explain anything a reasonable adult wouldn’t do.

For instance: Act completely blasé, then lock the pilot out of the cockpit, and deliberately crash a plane full of people.

I don’t know what that is, but it’s not depression.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/germanwings_co_pilot_mental_illness_suicide_is_linked_to_depression_but.html

yep

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

It has been "stated" that this was not a Terrorist act.

Just thought that I would repeat that, as that's factual, you know, it was "stated"....

And Fred Flintstone said Yabba Dabba Doo!

Have you got anything else for us?

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@hawkeye10,

EgyptAir Flight 990 - experienced something simular, the air lines are linked.

Quote:

The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) recorded the captain excusing himself to go to the lavatory, followed thirty seconds later by the first officer saying in Egyptian Arabic "Tawkalt ala Allah," which translates to "I rely on God." A minute later, the autopilot was disengaged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

Quote:

Experts see similarities between Tuesday's tragedy and the mysterious 1999 crash of EgyptAir flight 990

Accepting that a pilot may have been to blame for a crash is complicated for any airline, not least of all due to the financial implications such admissions carry. Experts say that family members of the victims of the Germanwings plane crash could be in line for up to £100 million in compensation, the Daily Mail reports.

Quote:

Also, identifying psychological disturbance in pilots is difficult, experts say.
The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO), recommends that someone with depression should not fly a plane, Reuters says. But the Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine also says that testing crews for psychological disorders is "rarely of value" and not "reliable" in predicting mental problems.

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@hawkeye10,

You're so respectful.......

Yep chew on all of that, including mental issues verses depression.... Then go and eat a dim sim and don't choke.

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@FOUND SOUL,

Apparently he was with his girlfriend for 7 years but the relationship was in trouble, hence the purchase of the "two" cars, one of which had been delivered 3 days before the crash.

Also that he may have been bullied, that he grew up with planes all over his wall and dreamed of being a pilot but whilst waiting took a lesser job and was bullied as a result.

I don't think it was depression either. Rather, rage built up and perhaps knowing that he can't be a pilot hence, ripping up the Medical note, girlfriend perhaps on the verge of leaving him, eye sight, a lot of things but anger and rage and suicide as I said, in what he loved the most doing what he loved the most and not giving a damn about "people", humans, their lives in the process. An act of evil.

1 Reply

Passenger Plane Crashes in French Alps.

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