Should I have another kid?

Steady income is very useful.

...some ARE only children...

...some ARE only children...

Love ya Gus! :-)

That's a great bee, Piffka!

I said this before, really do see the benefits of having kids close together. FreeDuck is the only one I know who planned it (good planning!) for everyone else it was a happy accident -- at least, they (the other people I'm thinking of) thought it was happy after a couple of years.

The fact that close together is no longer an option (I'm not interested in adopting a 3-year-old) is another part of this. There is "having another kid close to the first one", for which I see more and more benefits (though I don't think it would have been possible for us), and "having another kid who will be 5+ years younger than the first one," which is something else.

Steady income IS very useful, indeed. We've been in rather desperate financial straits for a while -- something I'm sheepish saying because we have this house that we stretched for now and will grow into, financially, and because sozlet has 5 doting grandparents who lavish her with gifts so we're giving AWAY perfectly wonderful things because we already have so much. But in terms of everyday nickle and diming -- getting the cheaper kind of juice, never buying a hardback book, doing without an email pager in the many months since my old one died, etc., etc., -- would be nice to be able to relax and breathe a bit.

I've been following this thread and thinking deeply about whether my observations would be relevant.

My younger son died as a result of his miscalculated risk. I had another son. His older brother had no one else who had shared many, many moves and a unconventional upbringing.

Had I had only one child, I would have been completely devastated. Some women are able to form close relationships with stepchildren. My stepchildren tell lies--calculated lies. This makes love very conditional on my part.

Neither of my sons were "planned". When the pill became available I was one of the first women to take it.

One child alters a life. A second child changes a life.

I'm in my mid-sixties and as secretary of my college class, I'm in touch with a cross-section of bright women: married, unmarried, straight, gay, mothers, end-of-the-lines.

I have never heard anyone regret children. I have never heard anyone express a screaming lack that they have never had children.

This takes care of your choices for you.

I know a number of women my age who have been sustained through considerable personal difficulty by supportive siblings. I know other women--and I'm among them--who have non-supportive siblings and who are wistful that they were not navigating the senior years without family.

I know single women with no children with little or no regret for having no children but with deep regret for having no close family.

Still, sharing parents doesn't mean sharing values or world views.

Sorry, Sozobe. When the roads fork neither road comes with a guarantee of Happily Ever After.

You make a decision--and you live with the outcome.

Well, there you are.
Agree.
which is to say- if you were me, or I were you - go for walks and listen to yourself on different days. Try stuff on. Go with it. See how you feel after going there. Twice, and again.

Well, that's my way, I try stuff on. If nothing else, it acculturates me to where I'm going.

Trying stuff on is what I do every day, with forays here for a few weeks the last three years to get some outside perspective. :-)

I dunno, seems to be about evenly divided between "don't think so much" and "just think some more."

Noddy, I understand what you're saying and take it to heart.

That is a perspective that is compelling, but at the same time as a rationale it doesn't feel right to me. (I don't think you were offering it as a rationale, just an aspect of the whole picture.) Like having a second child to donate a kidney to the first, or something.

As for regret, I have heard both (perhaps because I ask and ask and ask) -- regret for having had a child (usually second or third), and regret for not having had a child (usually second.)

I was thinking of you, Noddy, and your experience. Thanks for your perspective, it is appreciated.

Let me try to clarify myself.

You wrote:


No child can replace another. When Douglas died, I could take comfort that Danny was still alive, but this didn't lessen the ache for the child I lost.

On the other hand, Danny lost his only sibling.

One of the silliest forms of competitiveness is totting up Suffering Points to prove that one person is more bereaved than another. All the same, I lost one of two sons. Danny lost his only brother.

Essentially, I'm trying to explain from another point of view that you can't control the ramifications of your decision--only the decision.

Hold your dominion.

Worth remembering, indeed.

Trying to control that which is uncontrollable is an unfortunate tendency of mine. (No faster way to the loony bin...)

Noddy has an awesome dominion.

My sis and I are four and a half years apart (she's the older one). Too far apart to really share the same things and get this camaraderie thing going, but close enough to share some interests and in the end, god were we thankful we had another.

This is about how it went (pretty ordinary story, really): when I was a kid - well I dont remember anything from before age 6-7. After that, I dont remember us having so much with or against each other - well, fights over the dishes you know - who washes, who dries - hanging out with cousins. Regular stuff. Then when I was getting 11, 12, she was a teenager and I picked up all the music and style from her. Walked around with Echo & the Bunnymen and 999 (punk) badges when I was still in primary school. Went to a Comsat Angels concert in the local new wave place with her & her friends when I was 13, had crushes on her older friends through the years after, oh, the goths and the cool girls. Course I would take everything just one little step further - she listened to the Simpleminds, me to The Clash, she wore black clothes I torn-up black clothes. Not really a rivalry thing tho, just being the younger one, its easy. She ended up touring the country to see bands, I ended up clubbing on E (for a bit). Hey, a generation difference

Dunno. Nothing peculiar about any of it, really. Because she'd pushed some early limits, I could push em further, but my parents were easy-going anyway. She was very talkative, a typically chatty teen and tween girl - god, talking on the phone endlessly, domineering the conversation at the dinner table. I never really got to say my stuff. Still kinda need someone to give me a little space - for there to be some silences and stuff - to even get round to talking about my feelings. Was a nightmare with A., who's the personality that will just never ever happen to leave that kind of space. I had to learn to fight after all, bit late. But thats about the only thing I can think of. We were never huggy-share-your-secrets-close, but definitely not estranged or anything.

When our mum died, I was 24, she 28. We were so glad to have each other. Still are. My father ... well, he has his own things. Plus, with them having divorced, he had his own issues over my mum that kept him from being - there, for us, at the time, not really he wasnt. So we relied a lot on each other. Had some raging fights around that time too (for example about the above domineering bit) - guess stress will bring that out. Got us closer tho.

We're still not close like I see other siblings be close. But we care a great lot. And I can always go there, did go there on individual successive Saturday afternoons a few years ago when things were quite grim. (Doesnt happen the other way round, I moved further off from homebase, live in the one room, she got a house, a man now, a baby even.) I call her when I need advice. She tells me her things. I respect her. Love her, tho not in the doting kind of way she loves me (now). When she gives me a hug I feel a little awkward, but its her I call whenever something's up (or down), not my father.

The baby's a cutie, my little nephew. I would so have liked to have a kid of my own by now, perhaps never will. (For one, I'd need a woman who did not expect me to be the sole breadwinner - I am so refusing to be out working 40 or 50 hours a week when we have a kid, thats gonna be something I wanna share! ) Anyway, its cute to have a little nephew. And its sad he didnt get to know his granma - or rather, that she never got to see him (odd to think of her as a "grandma"). Thats the thing with people getting kids ever later - greater possibility of never getting to know your grandchildren (long) - even of dying yourself when they're still young (trust me, 24 is still pretty f*cking young). Then again, better for the kid to have a mature parent than a twenty-year old - I mean, often ... when I look at my sis and her husband, they're so super relaxed about everything. No panic, no overprotective stress no overblown expectations - they've seen lots themselves, they're in their late thirties, they wont rile themselves up much over anything the kid does or will do.

I dont have no advice. But you were worried on page 8, and just now too, about a 5-years difference being a problem, a dealbreaker even in your considerations. Well, its different from smaller age differences, but it dont need to be no problem ...

A thought on decision making.

Soz, whatever you decide will be fine. You decide and then you make it be the right decision by the way you move forward with it. You could decide either way, it will be terrific and exactly right.

From the decisions I've made:

Deciding to go back to school part-time while working full-time and get a second degree. It tooks 7 years and was a ton of work but it was the best decision I ever made.

Deciding to finally leave my husband of 12 years. It was very painful but our relationship was wrong from the beginning and plutonic at best. It was the best decision I ever made.

Deciding to leave my home, friends, and family and move alone half-way across the country. It was scary and I had no reason to believe I could succeed in my new efforts but two years and three promotions later at a Fortune 100 company determined it was the best decision I ever made.

Deciding to get remarried. Why on earth would I want to get remarried. I'd been there, done that but, almost 16 years later, it truly was the best decision I ever made.

Deciding to have children. OMG! Me? Have children? The corportate ladder climber? They are the joy of my life. Both were planned which, being the major oops that I was, was important to me. Definately the best decision I ever made.

Deciding to leave my career and stay at home with my baby. People who knew me thought I had lost my mind. They couldn't think of anyone less likely to want to be a stay at home mom. When my second daughter was 2 and my older one was approaching 4, I decided I needed to use my brain again. I started making some phone calls and letting some people know I was available for some limited home-based consulting. That was 11 years ago. I'm still working from home. I have four part-time employees who either come here or work out of their own homes and we contribute a great deal of work to the biomedical community, yet I am still here when the kids get home on the bus or I can run over to school to see the play or music program without asking anyone's permission. It was the best decision I ever made.

The overall best decision I ever made? I don't know, I haven't made it yet.

My point is this, all of these decisions might not have been made or might have been made in a different direction. Each time I've made a major life's decision I've found myself hoping (praying?) that it was the right decision to make. Then I catch myself and say, 'It's the right decision now because I'm going to make it so.'

I think as a ponderer you can look back over the times you've struggled with making decisions and probably can see a similar pattern to mine. I have no doubts that whatever decision you make will be the best decision possible.

A few thoughts:

Sibling or no sibling, Sozlet will be fine either way. The decision should ideally be based on what's best for you.

There's always room for more love. Do you really think you could regret having another child? This now-abstract entity will appear with his or her own wonderful, unique qualities and bring so much joy into the family.

What Noddy said about losing one child... it's the unthinkable, but it does happen. This possibility is not a REASON to have more children, but it does underscore the concept of comfort and love that exists in a bigger family.

The hand that rocks the cradle...

That said, don't use the word "selfish." There can be selfishness imagined in either choice, and you don't need to give yourself a guilt trip. You'll make the best decision you can, and if you decide not to try for another pregnancy after giving it so much thought, you'll have made the right decision for YOU.

Good luck.

Fantastic post, J_B, I know exactly what you mean. I've had a whole bunch of those retrospective "best decision I could have made" things (even if the "decision" was heavily influenced by chance.) For example, I really expected that I would get pregnant the first time as soon as I started trying, but it took quite a while. I knew that we would be moving in 2000 -- because of hubby's job, he had a temporary postdoc position that ended then -- and really thought I wanted to get have the baby in a familiar environment, THEN move.

As it turned out, we moved when I was 7 months pregnant -- so much happened in that last year of my job, I can't imagine not having that (and I've always planned to be a stay-at-home mom.) In retrospect, it would have been MUCH harder to move with a 10-month-old than it was to move 7 months pregnant. And we almost definitely would have moved here (Columbus) at the time we did regardless -- just before preschool is much better than after one year of preschool where we were, then coming here, IMO.

And on it goes.

Great point.

Oh, hi Cinn! Thanks for your take.

I do think I could regret it, yes. Part of it is what I have said about pure logistics and how I parent. I know deaf parents with more than one child, but none who parent the way I do and are not in an ASL household. (My kid signs, but English is our first language.)

My husband is going to be an insanely busy man for a long time yet (people are already assuming he'll be chair of the department in a few years -- oy), so these pure logistical issues are a real concern. I'm going to be the primary caretaker the vast majority of the time.

I used to babysit a lot, back when my hearing still fluctuated. Babysitting one was OK no matter where my hearing was (if more challenging when it was bad.) Babysitting two when my hearing was good was fine, even fun. But when my hearing was bad, babysitting two kids was hell hell hell. Man that was awful.

Thanks again, food for thought.

One more thing about other deaf families and how they do it -- the oldest hearing child is often deputized to do all sorts of things, like notify the mom when something sounds off (signaling systems are of limited use, only for loud noises), etc., etc. Become a sort of mom jr. That's not a role I want to put sozlet in, or want to plan on her being in. (I know many adults who had that role and deeply resented it.) (They often become interpreters, because that's what they've been doing their whole life, why not get paid?)

Yeah, I'm the devil's advocate. :wink:

Just out of curiosity - and I realise I might be butting in somewhere I have no place going - but are you fully OK with all that? Is he?

I mean, it can be such an automatic process - you're smart (he obviously is), you're doing well, people want you to move up, offer you the chance, and you're naturally enthusiastic about such new challenges (he sounds like he is) - so why not. Must be much easier for him to move up than for you to reintegrate and get on the same level of income, I assume (if it works anything like it does here). But - well, I was just wondering. Because if I were him, I would so not want to be out of the house 40 (50?) hours a week without the Sozlet. And vice versa, if I were you - you're I think the single most versatile, eager, intelligent on-your-feet thinker on this board of my age - I would not want to have to be in the role of caretaker "the vast majority of the time", I'd want it more mixed if I were like you.

So thats kinda where my curiosity's coming from (and you've probably long answered such questions on some other thread). How'd you go about making such decisions? Was it something that just turned out that way, what with his career going so well? (Something "just turning out that way" doesnt sound much like you, but I can well imagine how self-evidently it would just seem to unfold that way). Or is it a conscious choice the two of you keep on making? Or more based on the idea that its the only practical/feasible thing?

<butts out again>

Soz, I didn't mean to be cryptic, but I guess I was. I had been reading this thread for a while, both this year and last. It seemed to me that most of the reasons to have or not to have would take a statistician to prove. The bottom line is if you and your husband want another child, then you have another child. This is something, like faith, you can't reason out. You take the leap and hope for the best.




Gee, I hadn't noticed :wink:

Agreeing with nimh re his questions.

Soz can make a big difference in the large world, is more than equipped for it. I don't want to see her lose focus on that, while I do understand losing speed for a while for the real reasons for the sozlet.

But I'd really like to see soz bloom to illuminate many others' lives...

Tis piquant, and perhaps not a this or that choice, re one more child, but I do want to see her have energy to contribute where she is already sparking.

Interesting reaction to nimh's and Swimpy's posts last night (didn't see Osso's 'til this morning...)

I read both of 'em on my way to making dinner, and throughout I kept smiling and laughing for no good reason, especially when thinking of Swimpy's. (Kind of a blushy sheepish laughing, but a lot of laughing.) I was thinking about that, and that it's so nice to be known -- not just general advice but a reaction that shows that this person really knows me quite well.

So that got me thinking about how well your family knows you and benefits thereof. But then led right back to the fact that the people who made me think that aren't (officially) my family. A lot of great connections can be made outside of blood family ties.

Anyway, to respond more specifically:

It's something I went into with my eyes open -- E.G. has been on this track since I met him, and has been extremely driven and busy the whole time. I knew before I got pregnant that I would be the primary caretaker. (He did promise to be home by 6 PM every night which didn't happen, but he also spent a lot of time at home when she was a new baby and takes time off from work when necessary for doctor's appointments, has watched sozlet for long periods while I went to various meetings/ training sessions from when she was born, is planning to observe at her preschool for 2 and a half hours during the day, etc.)

I'd certainly prefer he didn't work so much but on the other hand that is part of a personality that I generally like -- "ambitious" is kind of a dirty word, but he is, and I am too. I think that can be a very positive quality. Live by the sword die by the sword.

That goes for both of us in a lot of different ways -- I'm not sure I'd be the person I am if I weren't deaf, but it's definitely difficult to deal with at times. (For him, I mean.) A lot of our conversations about this issue (having another kid) end up with, well, if I weren't deaf and he worked as much as he does... maybe. If he didn't work so much and I were deaf... maybe. But both of those things together... Actually makes it a little more equitable, not one person's "fault."

Oh and it's more like 78 hours a week. :-) I figured that out recently. Usually 12 hours a day M-F, 12 hours a day Sat or Sun, and 6 hours a day the other weekend day.

This is another reason for urgency on the connection problems we've been having, as we have an office all set up for him that is dependent on the connection being good so he can do email (big part of his job.) The idea is to have him come home at some time every day and then go back and work in his home office if he still has more to do.

I dunno, there's another whole aspect I haven't gotten a handle on entirely, in that he is potentially not only good but great, the next Feynman or at least Hawking. What if he is and is held back by my silly domestic requirement that he be home for dinner every day?

While it crosses my mind, I don't actually worry about it too much. ;-)

I've definitely been in a sort of limbo these last several months, between resigning from the last committee and now. Because I did have a steady stream of community activity since I left my job in L.A -- creating a training module for mainstream teachers with deaf students, president of a charter school initiative, grant writing for deaf event -- I've been using those little grey cells and enjoying it. When sozlet was a matter of months old I was pumping breastmilk and going to day-long meetings downtown. Have feelers out for a part-time job now, a few things look promising but nothing definite. But this period of 9 months or so has been the first when I haven't had a lot of outside stuff going on. (And those 9 months have contained house-hunting research, house-buying, and actual move, all major projects themselves.) This break from outside activities has actually quite refreshing in a lot of ways, but I'm ready to move on from it.