Should I have another kid?

No, I obviously totally DON'T already know! ;-) That's what's driving me crazy. I have two equal and opposite strong instincts -- one for, and one against.

Thanks for your perspective though, you were definitely someone I had in mind in terms of not being here the first (or second) time 'round.

Yeah, I'd definitely have to talk myself into doing pregnancy and the first year again.

The relationship between siblings part is something that sounds so great. We got a Christmas card from friends, showing their three daughters -- ~6, ~3, and ~1. It's a great picture, the two older girls holding the baby, everyone grinning, and we definitely looked at each other and went "hmmmmmmmmmm...." Then E.G. asked his friend what it was like and he said "we're surviving... barely." He's totally overwhelmed.

I mean, that's three, not two, but...

The other day I came to a conclusion -- I'd stop birth control for a month, and see what happened. If I got pregnant then, great, meant to happen. If not, it's over, move on. Equal and opposite instincts in my reaction there, too... sudden dread at the prospect of being pregnant, sudden dread at the prospect of absolutely definitely NEVER having another kid. UGH.

I don't think I've ever waffled over anything for so long -- I usually do a lot of research before coming to a decision, but once I have enough info, I decide and that's that. This one just won't quit.

Hmm. I didn't realize you were still conflicted about it.

I can tell you that the first year of ducklet's life was the hardest for me. Sozlet is older so this might not be the same for you, but it was quite an adjustment for me being needed by more than one child. We had to start compromising on what we could provide for them. For example, we decided that public school would be good enough as long as we make an effort to foster learning at home. Also, I had to really start reading the parenting books. Duckie was pretty easy to figure out when it was just the two of us, but ducklet was/is so completely different from him in almost every way imaginable that I had to learn new parenting tricks. What worked for him didn't work for her, etc...

I don't know if any of this helps you decide. Probably not, but maybe just the perspective helps. I have a neighbor across the street who has 8 kids. All perfectly beautiful, healthy, happy, well-mannered, nice kids. She is totally cut out for that and does a great job. I talked to her about it once and she said, "you know, you adjust no matter how many kids you have." I don't know why I found that so helpful. I come from a family of 7 kids where my mother was always overwhelmed and angry at us and so I always looked at planning kids as something to be done with the ultimate caution so as not to reach the breaking point of my sanity, our financial ability, and our marriage.

But I thought you might take some comfort in her words. "You adjust." It's not likely that, having decided to have a second child, you would regret it. It's just a matter of convincing yourself to do it, I think? And of course, if you're not convinced....

Yeah. That's part of why that "Miswanting" article made such an impression on me and I was quoting from it all over the place for a while. (That may have predated you, too.) Basically, it holds that we will be approximately as happy or unhappy no matter what, as long as our basic needs are met. If we're overwhelmed and depressed with one kid, we'll be overwhelmed and depressed with 8. If we're stressed but fine with one, we'll be stressed but fine with 8. (I'm not havin' 8!!)

I'm still hugely conflicted, yeah. Same place I was last year, and the year before that. (Sozlet was concieved early February, I always think in terms of year difference, it's a constant rumble in the back of my mind but really springs into relief this time of year.)

My loop goes something like this ---> do I want a kid? NOW? No! Then should I give up, forget about it? No! OK, so I should leave the option open? <sigh of relief> But this has a time limit! Am I going to wimp myself out of making a decision in the window of opportunity? Am I going to let inertia make the decision, and regret it?

bluhbluhbluhbluhbluh...

I hear you. It sounds a lot (to me) like the conversation that happens when deciding whether or not have kids at all. The simplest decision is to not make a decision. But, like you said, this has a time limit. Good luck, anyway. I feel for you because I know it's a tough decision.

See, now that helped. Because I DID make the decision to have sozlet. I can make the decision, and get through my worries and do it. But this time, I can't make the decision, so that probably means something.

Flush your pills and see what happens.
I vote for a second child. If not biological, then adopted.

Gotta give me more than that. Why?

Oh good, glad that helped.

As long as I'm blabbing on this topic, maybe this will help too. We considered having a third child. There were many, many reasons why we decided against it, but one thing that cinched it for me was this. I am so looking forward to getting past the early childhood years. Call it selfish, but just the idea of being able to travel (with the kids of course, but without a diaper bag and car seats) and being able to pursue my own interests again really put it in perspective for me. I know it's not like my job is done already, but there will be considerably more freedom in the next several years as my kids enter school age. It's already gotten so much easier as they can dress themselves and go to the bathroom by themselves and even make a peanut butter sandwich. That's kind of a big deal to me. The thought of going through pregnancy again (after I've finally stabilized my clothing size) and spending another year with a baby hanging off my tit just closed the deal.

Oh god yes.

All of that, in spades.

The only thing is I worry about selfishness -- I feel that, but am I being selfish to feel that and based on that deprive sozlet of a sibling?

(bluhbluh redux...)

decisions, decisions ....


I was an only one and never missed having siblings at all - I was good at entertaining myself when my friends were't available - reading, painting etc

I suppose I do see the benefits of larger families with some of my friends who have supportive siblings who rally round in a crisis. One friend was diagnosed with cervical cancer and her siblings got together unknown to her to put money together to pay her to stay at home for a year with no financial problems - they don't live in each others pockets and she never dreamed they'd do something so lovely for her. As children they fought though! (she has of course been there in different ways for each of them over the years).

I was broody and had second child partly for me and partly because I could see myself becoming 'hen with one chick' and in danger of being over protective (like my dad, who was also very strict and with no siblings to worry about had plenty of time to watch what I was up to!).

There is just under 5 years between A & C. A was a very bright, vulnerable child and having a baby before that was out of the question. She was very clever, a bit shy but needing lots of attention and conversation like Sozlet. She was very well behaved and really wasn't hard work. A, when little, would look at strangers with huge saucer eyes, suck her thumb and say nothing at all! they'd be charmed but she didn't want to know! (she is very sociable nowadays)

She adapted well to small sister. I worked very very hard to ensure that they both understood even handedness and equal love. 2 kids is about 5 times the work! emotional as well as physical.

C was a totally different personality - verging on hyperactive, a little charmer who flirted with people and was much more outgoing - she 'swam' across the room on her tummy at 2 months, crawled on her hands and knees at 3 months, walked around the furniture at 5 months and walked absolutely everywhere like a 2 year old at 8 months. When not that much older she was the one hanging out of the tree by one hand shouting 'look at me'

They played quite well when little, went through a rocky patch as A hit her teens and 'little brat' was annoying her and now get on brilliantly again.

The problem is it's a gamble - I tell C that if she'd been the first (so much harder work!) there probably wouldn't have been a second. You don't know what the personality will be or how they'll get on - your input can only do so much - if characters are very different then there will be some problems en route and as an only one you are in alien territory!

I am so glad I had them both - A is calm and reflective and loving, she's done very well and has a great job that uses her unique talents and empathy. Her advice is always calm and sensible, working out what you want to do and the best way to achieve it and analyse what can't be changed.

C is behind you 100% right or wrong! not so much analysis. She's fun to be with, needs to keep moving and busy a lot of the time. She's doing well too but is still working on her right route in life.

I love spending time with them together or separately and can't imagine not having one of them.

This won't help at all I'm sure but that's my two pennyworth of thoughts.


oh incidentally, my mum's reaction on telling her I was pregnant with C was 'Oh poor A'! My mum was an only one.

Sorry. Didn't mean to be flippant. There's so much to say and so little time.

Much more than two pennyworth, Vivien, thanks.

Sounds parallel in a lot of ways, including age difference IF I were to get pregnant next month (which, practically, is very unlikely.)

I really appreciated and understood this part:



That's the first time I've seen that, I think, very much how I feel. I just haven't been able to imagine how sozlet would be able to get what she needed from me with a baby around. For the first time, that specific concern is less part of my thinking on this subject, so that's interesting.

Lots of food for thought, thanks.

No problem, very interested in what you have to say when you find time, Cinn.

I knew a man with five children who had a very interesting perspective.

He said the first child always changes your life. (For obvious reasons.)

The second child is not as big a deal. There are two of you and two of them, so you can switch off a lot of the time.

The third child changes your life again. Now you always have to handle more than one at a time. (This explains your friend with 3 children feeling overwhelmed.)

After three, it doesn't really matter how many more you have, because you've figured out how to handle them in bunches.

If I'd had my son at a younger age (instead of 40), I would have tried for a second. But we just didn't have enough energy left. I remember what a dear friend of the family told me once. She was in her 80s at the time, and had lost her one-and-only child by then to cancer. She said don't just have one, because if something happens to that one, you'll feel like your whole life is over.

I guess the question is...which do you think would be easier for you to live with in the long run. Having a second child, or deciding not to? Could you live with yourself if you didn't?

I could. I'm an only and I liked it fine.

The two of you and two of them part is interesting, as that's certainly part of the hesitation -- it's ONE of me the vast majority of the time. Hubby works 7 days a week, is at the office usually 12 hours a day weekdays and usually ~6 hours on weekend day (and ~12 hours the other.)

And there's also pure logistics -- the complexity of dealing with one without being able to "keep an ear on" the other.

Frankly -- and I bet you can relate to this -- I can't imagine not feeling like my whole life is over if something should happen to sozlet, whether she has a sibling or not. (Knock on wood.)

Good stuff there though, got me thinking at slightly different angles again, thanks. (That's what I'm going for most of all, as my thinking just goes around the same tired loop overandoverandover and that's part of the frustration.)

Actually, no, I don't know if I could live with myself. I think so, but that's a big part of what I'm trying to figure out. -sigh-

Here is a question that came to me out of left field...

You have stated many reasons both pro and con for having a second child.
As I have heard other women say this I wonder if it applies to you.
Do you feel that there is something that you didnt do for Sozlet that you really want to do for another child? Sort of right a percieved wrong?
( i apologize if this sounds rude, please believe it isnt! It is just a diffrent perspective.. )

Hmm, in a general way. Just, I know what I'm doing now! :-) I wouldn't be so hyper with the new baby if I had another kid -- all that stuff about when a temperature is too high, how long they can go without pooping (I found an old email recently to my husband from when sozlet was a few months old entitled "POOP!!!" and very exultant that she had finally, finally pooped after a couple of days or something, we were so worried... ), lots of that kind of stuff.

Mostly when I think about it is in terms of sibling for sozlet -- the companionship, the shared history, the social skills, etc. -- and the prospect of never having my own bundle of baby wonderfulness again. Sozlet's little, but she's not a baby anymore.

Interesting question though, thanks!

I didnt think that applied to you . I did think that you would appreciate the diffrent perspective though. :-)
You dont come across as an insecure parent. Quite the contrary, you are one of the most amazing parents I have met.. ( you know.. through internet and all.. ;-) )

:-) Aw, thanks. I'm lucky to have an amazing kid. Really fun to read about your adventures with the wonderbean and remember stuff.

I was totally hyper when she was a baby, but I got over it. The first 4 months were probably the worst, then better until she was a year, and by then I was pretty much in the swing of things.

This is why I keep referring to "The Baby Book" by William and Martha Sears, though! That thing was a total lifesaver. Answered 14,782 questions.