9
   

15 PHD level scientists say evolution is a bunch of bullshit

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 03:16 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
"muddy ponds" , as I previously said, was a metaphor, an example of but one location for lifes appearance. I also mentioned that life probably began as a replicating polymer , or that life began perhaps began as an expandable clay in the presence of organic molecules.

Whatever the case, its been a chaotic , nondirectional, several billion year journey to my own ancestors . Hows it gone for you?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 03:25 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Quote:
But DNA is the hard drive, that you have 37 trillion of in your body, which makes you a machine of sorts......


you also seem to have a bit of trouble with reductive analogy. Most of those nucleotides are "fossil" DNA. A barcode is usually kept to an economic minimum, whereas our genome is just chock- a- block with ancestral lines of "code". If we were can of beans, our label wouldn't be big enough to contain the lines of our own "bar code".
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 03:28 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Quote:
something that we do not really understand as of yet
why not? weve had hexadecimal code for yeqrs. Why is quad decimal so more difficult (especially since the nucleotides are limited to just a few combination patterns
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 04:09 am
http://www.sciencemeetsreligion.org/theology/god-of-the-gaps.php

Quote:
Can (or should) God be found in the gaps of scientific knowledge?

Introduction

A large fraction of the writings of creationists and intelligent design proponents can be summarized as a search for phenomena that appear to be outside the realm of what is known or possible in science. The hope is that such features of nature can then be cited as "proof" of God's handiwork. See, for example, Mark Isaak's book, which presents and then addresses, from a scientific point of view, an encyclopedic collection of such claims from the creationist and intelligent design communities: [Isaak2007].
But there are fundamental difficulties with this approach to theology. In fact, this approach even has a name: the "God of the gaps." The main difficulty with this approach is that science is relentlessly expanding its reach, and what one day might be unexplained could be satisfactorily explained, in terms of prosaic natural processes, the next day. ...

God of the gaps in the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries

The earliest instance where the dangers of placing God in the current unknown of science were clearly expressed is most likely the writings of 19th century scientist-theologian Henry Drummond. In his book The Ascent of Man, he wrote [Drummond1894, pg. 333]:

There are reverent minds who ceaselessly scan the fields of Nature and the books of Science in search of gaps -- gaps which they will fill up with God. As if God lived in the gaps? What view of Nature or of Truth is theirs whose interest in Science is not in what it can explain but in what it cannot, whose quest is ignorance not knowledge, whose daily dread is that the cloud may lift, and who, as darkness melts from this field or from that, begin to tremble for the place of His abode?

...

Concerns about the pitfalls of the God of the gaps approach to science and religion continue to be seen in dialogue from both religious and scientific camps to the present day. Here, for example, is a comment from a 2008 report by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences [NAS2008, pg. 54]:

Both science and religion are weakened by claims that something not yet explained scientifically must be attributed to a supernatural deity. Theologians have pointed out that as scientific knowledge about phenomena that had been previously attributed to to supernatural causes increases, a "god of the gaps" approach can undermine faith. Furthermore, it confuses the roles of science and religion by attributing explanations to one that belong in the domain of another.

Conclusion

For more than 100 years, the "God of the gaps" theology has been recognized as a dead end in the search for harmony between science and religion. Today, as never before, scientific knowledge is progressing at an astounding rate, with tens of thousands of professional scientists publishing hundreds of thousands of articles each year. In this environment, seeking God hidden in the recesses of scientific ignorance is tantamount to theological suicide. Those writers who espouse this approach are doing their readers a disservice.

Emphasis added.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:06 am
@FBM,
People who believe that if they copy and paste more, and that it takes more than a 4 year old to copy and paste more, are precious.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:10 am
Translation: You cannot answer your critics, and you don't have a scrap of evidence to present.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:15 am
@farmerman,
Dude, DNA has 3 billion lines of code that enable you to contemplate and write code in the first place. Thus all other codes that you can name are the product of DNA, and this makes DNA the most advanced thing in the known universe, because it has created all known knowledge. Understanding DNA does not mean knowing what gene does what, understanding DNA means knowing how the language writes life, when this is understood, then we can write life as easily as I wrote this. This process could take anywhere from 10 more to a billion more years. I would say that 10,000 should be more than enough though.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:15 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

People who believe that if they copy and paste more, and that it takes more than a 4 year old to copy and paste more, are precious.


Not as precious as people who make claims that they can't even substantiate with imported data. Found anything for that Bronze Age god of yours yet? I won't lie and pretend to be holding my breath.
0 Replies
 
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:21 am
@farmerman,
No one understands the purpose of junk or so it is called DNA. The human spleen was once considered to be a worthless vestigial organ, now it is known to help heal damaged hearts, the appendix was also vestigial, but now aids digestion by probiotics. The so called junk DNA, could well be the VAST library that could allow for a human to evolve into a salamander, or vice versa if need be. As DNA is not a library composed of letters that is known to the writer, DNA has to first form the writer, thus it has to write or rewrite itself, by the process of what seems to be a far more advanced computer language than humanity can currently comprehend. So you see my God argument, really says that God is a computer scientist, for lack of a better term for one who writes life that can evolve, however the name created of God does just fine. Though, it bothers people who want to believe in mud science rather than real science.
0 Replies
 
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:27 am
@Setanta,
You have evidence of prebiotic molecules that formed life in a warm pond? Can you name them, or explain why warm ponds that spawn life do not exist today? or why these molecules are no longer present on the Earth enabling an experiment proving your hypothesis.

Copy and paste not needed.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:30 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
I've never advanced a "warm pond" thesis--as usual, faced with the prospect of providing evidence for your point of view, you default to a straw man fallacy and attempt to shift the burden of proof.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:36 am
@Setanta,
It does not matter if you personally never used the warm pond analogy, all evolution theory goes back to this mythical pond. If you do not believe in this, it is very hard to understand what you do believe in. Where did the vast amount of life come from in your mind, knowing that evolution takes life to evolve. Thus without either a creator, or proverbial warm pond that was struck by lightning magically forming life you are lost. So please explain where biology came from...!
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:37 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

You have evidence of prebiotic molecules that formed life in a warm pond? Can you name them,


Already have posted evidence for prebiotic molecules. Read the thread. Pay attention. The warm pond bit is your strawman; I see no need to engage it.

Quote:
or explain why warm ponds that spawn life do not exist today? or why these molecules are no longer present on the Earth enabling an experiment proving your hypothesis.

Copy and paste not needed.


Time and change. The present Earth climate isn't the same as it was 4 billion years ago. Derp.

How about a little cut-and-paste evidence for that invisible friend in the sky that you're so fond of? Can't help but notice your thundering silence about that request.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:40 am
@FBM,
The thread contains no factual information on prebiotic molecules, since prebiotic molecules can only be demonstrated to be real after having been seen to form life. So do the warm pond experiment, and I will change my thinking, until then you just speculate.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:46 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:
Evolution is caused by random mutations in the DNA code that turn out to be advantageous to the individual. Were you born and raised in a cave, seriously everyone agrees with this..... Gene splicing proves it as well.

Today it is, but DNA was not the starting point of evolution. Life on Earth had to evolve DNA. Please tell me why the process of evolution by mutation and natural selection would fail to work for earlier, simpler systems that copied themselves.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:47 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Why are you asking Setanta these questions, he's a historian, not a scientist? If you're so convinced you're right you should submit a paper to a scientific organisation so it can be peer reviewed. How about this one?

International Council for Science (ICSU)
5 rue Auguste Vacquerie
75116 Paris
France

When you've done that you can tell us how it went. I'm not a scientist either, but I understand how scientific processes work, and am very much of the opinion that we should listen to what the scientists say. At the same time it's best to ignore crackpots who refuse to deal directly with scientists but instead post a load of hogwash on the internet.

The only people you're going to convince are another load of religious nutters who have problems dealing with reality.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:47 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

The thread contains no factual information on prebiotic molecules, since prebiotic molecules can only be demonstrated to be real after having been seen to form life. So do the warm pond experiment, and I will change my thinking, until then you just speculate.


Old news: http://bcs.whfreeman.com/thelifewire/content/chp03/0302001.html

That's approximately high school level. Hope you can manage.

All you've got to do is provide a more robust hypothesis and empirical data, and the world will turn to you. So. Here's your chance to produce your evidence. Take it!

DNA Thumbs drive
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:56 am
@izzythepush,
Actually I am not here to change anyone's mind, except for my own. I want for those who do not believe as I do, to present me with the answers as to why I am wrong. In order to do that I must facilitate vibrant discussion. In this I have succeeded, however the other side has also succeeded in producing no evidence of either prebiotic molecules or that DNA code needed for evolution can evolve without DNA. While the outcome is exactly as expected for me, I am somewhat better empowered to understand the other sides dead end argument. My argument includes running the time equation into the future, instead of just into the past. Thus my argument ask for a rational reason as to why humanity can not engineer life to seed another planet with, thus creating God in the process. No one even takes this up, because it is logical to a scientific mind, which all evolutionist seem to have.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:58 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
No, evolution does not "go back" to a warm pond analogy. That's yet another of your straw man. Evolution does not "care" how life arose--it only applies once life has arisen. You constantly misstate the terms of a theory of evolution, and then demand that others prove what they have not claimed.

Why don't you explain where your creator came from? You've been bleating about that for days and days now, and never a shred of evidence for your Big Magical Sky Daddy. You expect others to meet a standard you've never met yourself.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 05:59 am
@FBM,
High school level or triple PHD, there is not one example of proven prebiotic molecules known to exist. Gunpowder is a pre destruction substance, as it's release of energy always causes some destruction, which can also be positive. This can be demonstrated by the experiment that you can not do for prebiotics.
 

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