Why I'm a feminist.

Given the topic of the thread, and the 38 point manifesto that started it....

... what did you expect?

... although I should talk. I was naive enough to try to start a reasonable discussion in this echo chamber. It is rather like trying to discuss evolution in a bible meeting (which by the way, I have also done).

Hello, hello, hello...anyone there?

courteous discussion

Why would you expect that. The initial post was rather belligerent".

Imagine how Izzy or Setanta would react to a similar thread entitiled "Why I'm a creationist."

Max, I know you believe there is a Feminist Union/organization as well as a Bill of rights/manifesto's and other devices at the disposal of women who want to enslave men. I figure the women who started this thread probably had several, actually probably more than several exasperating episodes on that day and decided to start this thread. I know you refer to the echo chamber, but I suspect you don't know what you want to hear. You don't have to like the word "feminist", but not everyone hears what you do when that word is used.

I cringe when I hear "feminazi". I jump to the conclusion that a man who uses that phrase is a woman hating moron. It might not be fair, but I find it insulting. If this helps at all, I have met women I find to be very angry and very intolerant of all things male. I don't like those women either, but they don't represent me or actually most women. They are just jerks, like the jerks who use feminazi, ball buster, and the other terms male jerks use.

Something tells me this will fall on deaf ears, but honestly, do you really think you know what it's like to be a woman or young girl? I'll admit I don't have a clue how painful it is to be kicked in the testicles..I can wince and be sympathetic but it would be a lot like you telling me you can imagine how painful childbirth might be or how terrifying it is to wake up in you own home in the dark because a male voice is telling you not to scream, and he won't kill you. You may have been able to understand that terror and hopelessness if you were abused as a small boy, and you might think a adult sized women might be immune to fear. Maybe we should, but blitz attacks are effective for a reason. If a girl or women is asleep, chances are they can be easily overpowered. But you know what cry baby's feminists are, thank god for clear thinkers like you.

Echo chamber, a couple of words that right away are meant to put off anyone who disagrees with you.

You are naturally welcome to post as repetitively as you wish. I was really talking about the bible spritzer that posts his screed(s) all over on many a2k threads, and people keep responding, some quite gleefully, as in feeding.

There was a manifesto that started this thread. It had 38 points. Some of them I agree with. Some of them I disagree with. Some of them I thought were right on. Some of them I thought were ridiculous.

Did you disagree with any of these?

Other than the fact I have a mother and sisters and a daughter and an ex-wife plenty of friends and a girlfriend and several former lovers... I obviously don't have experience being a woman other than what women close to me have told me.

I am a father. I have a daughter who I love dearly. If course I care very much about what it is like to grow up as girl. But this isn't about that.

I believe in equality. I think rape is bad. I teach my daughter that she as many rights as anyone and the same chance to succeed that anyone else has. I will react badly if anyone treats my daughter (or anyone else I care about) badly. This isn't the problem with feminism.

The problem is that feminism goes much further than this. Rather than teaching respectful relationships between boys and girls it teaches that boys are a risk. Instead of dialog it pushes a narrative where boys oppress girls. There is no real dialog about how to make society a better and fairer for all.

You see, I not only have a daughter that I love dearly, I also have sons.

I would like to teach both my daughter and my sons to be respectful, to take responsibility, to demand respect and to build healthy relationships?

I don't think this is too much to ask. And, in my opinion, feminism far misses the mark. I disagree with all of it, of course, but the narrative makes me uncomfortable enough that I want something else for my kids.

Read the first post again... from the point of view of a parent with both daughters and sons... and see if you can't understand where I am coming from.

You call it a manifesto, I disagree. I raised boys and am the grandmother of a little girl. I really don't know what you agree with, and your revulsion over the word feminism I just can't fathom. The OP expressed frustration, it was not a clarion call to trample men. Max, I think you are tone deaf, and I also don't think the OP was talking to you. Which points made you uncomfortable? You really don't have to tell me, I just wonder which ones made you feel guilty. Actually, I really don't want to know, I assume you are a decent man, so none of her comments should make you uncomfortable. If it's just a matter of assuming she wants power over you, get over it. She doesn't, I'm sure her life is very interesting.

I think I have said exactly what makes me uncomfortable. I don't think anyone listened, but I have a clear reason that I don't support feminism. Incidentally my opinion is by no means unique. Many women agree with me, there is even a backlash from some of the 77 percent of women (according to Huff Post) who don't call themselves feminism.

By the way rejection is not revulsion, disagreement is not guilt, and the issue isn't power.

The problem I have with feminism as it is commonly understood by many of us is that it is based on the overarching narrative that men are oppressing women. This narrative often provides a distorted view of male-female relationships and sometimes leads to bad policy.

None of the 38 points made me "uncomfortable". The fact I disagree with feminism doesn't mean I fear it.

I disagreed with points that implied that a woman's body image was due to male behavior (or that body image was a uniquely male problem) or that lamented that men judged women by their looks (try dating as a 40-something male).

She even went so far as to say that people here would make misogynistic personal attacks against her or even death threats. This obviously didn't happen.

I will say this again. The main problem I have with feminism is the narrative that is pushed to the point that it distorts reality. Things that are factually dubious are being pushed as unquestionable facts and bad policy is resulting.

If we could come up with a movement that stood for equality and respect without the doctrine of feminism, I would be all for it.

They did attack her, you just think it's normal. And your right, men have always worshipped women that you have placed on pedestals. Men never oppress anyone.

Where did anyone here attack her in a misogynistic way, could you provide a link? This might be a good example of my point. The narrative is that men are always oppressing women. This is so firmly ingrained that it is warping reality. You expect the "oppression" so much that when it doesn't happen, your mind makes it up. You believe it even though the facts don't back it up (all the posts are right there for you to check).

Disagreeing with someone is not a personal attack.

Facts and proof are not necessary for feminists. "Feelings" are all that's important to them. Like for instance if a feminist tells staff at a college that a particular man makes her "feel" uncomfortable, and that she "feels' that he's dangerous, he can have his college career ruined even if there's no proof at all of him being dangerous.



You got that right!



Ok, I officially like you maxdancona!

Well you would know much more about this Max, for I'm a mere women. I will ask my husband to read this again for me and explain it all. As soon as he tells me what to say, I will pass it along.

Hopefully he will show me where to find manifesto in that book, you know the one, it has a bunch of words in it and he will explain to me what that word means. However, it might not be until Thursday, because I need to make breakfast, lunch and a gourmet dinner, draw his bath, give him a facial so he won't mind spending time explaining men stuff for me. It's tough to be a wonderful man and deal with women.

Oh, I almost forgot, roll this up and stick it up your nose you self important prig. I can't understand complex things for you, I understand it, but you are unreceptive and stuck somewhere between a rock and a hard head. I'm a little sick of trying to engage you on an adult level and getting the echo chamber bullshit in response. Read your last comment to me you brass plated jerk, and apply it to yourself. Then send me the link, and for Christs sake, stop whimpering, it's unbecoming.

It's happened, maybe not on A2K, but it's definitely happened, and that creep Nonono has come pretty close.

Sounds to me that your problem isn't with feminism, it's with women, and I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Men are all murderers.

Apparently it's because they're born with penises.

I don't think anyone would describe what you've got between your legs as a penis, more of a peanut.

Go on, have another cry.

I'm done conversing with the retarded, thanks though!

Hmmmm... That'd be nice.

Can we agree that there are many different types of feminism / feminists? I too am put off occasionally by some extreme anti-men claims. Not 100% of gender roles are enforced by men; women play their part in perpetuating these roles, and sometimes to their benefit. But I bet that if Max were to ask his beloved daughter about feminism, he would find she supports a more 'moderate' version of feminism that only seeks equality. Because that's the version most women support. And I don't see any problem with that.

He takes things MORE SERIOUSLY than thay deserve.

I 'd laff it off n forget it.





David