MOTHERS AND ADULT DAUGHTERS

quinn - I know, when you vent to a friend, you vent to get the bad stuff off your chest. I knew there was a good side too.

Well, I got caught in the middle between my sister and my mother - again. It seems to be happening more and more. My grandma died in october (I know I said that before), my grandpa's 90th birthday party was this weekend. I didn't go. 4 of the 5 in my mother's generation were there trying to distribute possessions, pack my grandpa for a move, and have a party. The 5 middle-agers are all VERY different, VERY strong personalitied. It's been really hard to watch.

My ma and sis have always been at odds. Sis came home and related in tears how ma gave away the single most treasured item that sis wanted. Said she'd told ma over and over that she wanted this particular thing of which there were 3 or maybe 4 versions - domed portrait photographs of family members. The two just continuously misunderstand eachother. My sis asked me to call our ma immediately and tell her that the photo was important to me as well and ask her to try to get it back. I thought ma did what she did and, as unfortunate as it may have been for us, there wasn't a whole lot we could or should do about it. Ma called from the road. I could tell she knew sis had already spoken with me. Eventually she made her way to the subject and we talked for some time and she was in tears for much of it as well.

Seems that my sister is a traditionalist in many ways and my mother is not at all. I don't know where my sister has been, but I'VE seen the way in which the last few years has ravished family ties in ma's generation. It's tense, tired and messy. My mother is afraid that the family is going to fall apart - horrors, they're italian. And, my strong rock of a sister is in tears over a old photo.

Babs - maybe someday she can see how strong you were and why you had to be that strong. For her.

Must be hard for you k to be in the middle of it all, two women you care for on each side so emotionally distraught to be crying and talking to you. It is messy, and tense.
Although the picture has produced a problem, perhaps whoever had received the picture could be contacted for a copy? I know..small bandage for the moment but, its something.

Nope, my sis is holding out for the domed photo itself. I just told her I felt like a child of a divorcing couple - her and ma being the couple.

*I am so very grateful that I finally had the financial
ability to get professional help, for the type of family I grew
up in, the abuse done to us all, the need to get beyond the
grief and get on with life.
*All this surfaced AFTER I had finished and graduated from Pitt.
AFTER I had bought us our very first new home - finally a home
of our very own!!! And I never ever would have to depend on
Anyone to support me for the rest of my life. FREE! SAFE!
It was only then, WITH THE SURVIVAL ISSUES OF MY & MY
daughters' lives resolved, that I was even remotely able to begin
to see, and to work on, to deal with - all the emotional baggage I
still carried from my past. Only then did I have the money and
the time to actually begin to work on myself.. & to allow and to
seek out being challenged about my old ways of living of thinking
& of being, that you get when you are truly willing to seek therapy,
for as many years as I did. (like 14years worth)
*Unfortunately, for my oldest daughter, and for all of us,she chose
a life of abuse of drugs and alcohol.......so that during all the years
when I was getting recovery & the 2 younger sisters were still living
at home with me - SHE missed out on all that good stuff. She missed
out on all the changes, how we each learned to be more honest with
each other, about everything from soup to sex.
*MANY THANKS TO DUPRE, for stating what is the obvious but too
often overlooked reality of life. NONE OF US is the poster kid for
perfect. MANY of us refuse to even look too closely within, and
would much rather focus all attention on THE family scapegoat, or
just general gossip all over.SAFE TOPICS = gossip, weather,clothing,
what you are having for dinner, who has done what to who, in
ANYONE ELSE'S FAMILY BUT YOUR OWN!!!
*OKAY I AM DYING TO KNOW; how are you related, Misti and Rae?
Now, our family originally was from PA, moved to FL in 1983
& depending on their moods, the girls will call me mom, or ma
or mama, or MOTHER - this last is the negative one generally,
if I hear that, my hairs start to raise...& I get into fight position,
well, emotionally, at least.
*Why why why is the only truly, highly volatile relationship the one
with my oldest daughter? Why does she use my grandchildren to
to manipulate me? I have honestly about had it with her using the
kids. She tells me that she will not allow me to see them AT ALL,
when she really throws a fit. You know, I think I may just let her
have exactly what she wants for awhile. No calls. No visits.
But what about the kids?? They are not going to understand???
My understanding of all my anger is that it is always always based
in fear. 100 percent of the time, fear is at the bottom of everything.
Just like fear is what is so upsetting to me about the difficult
relationship with the oldest daughter, she threatens me with cutting
off my ability to see my grandkids - Wouldn't that upset any of you?
NATURALLY, I am scared s***less. Wouldn't you be - if anyone
tried to do that to you and your grandbabies???

Gee thanks alot little k, I don't know. Maybe it will all
be okay.... things usually are. It's just that she is so stupid
sometimes, Jade (grandson who is 6) fell and broke his
arm about 3 weeks ago, and my daughter did not take him
to the ER for 2 whole days. I did not say any of the things
I wanted to say when we saw them at Christmas - for the
sake of the kids, and xmas and all, but, honest to God, I
really do want to go break one of her arms with a baseball
bat, and refuse her medical care and attention for 48 hours.
I am so mad there is probably STEAM coming out of my
ears..... still.

That was pretty stupid of her.

Babs, Rae is my oldest daughter! She is just the best that ever happened to me, so is her son.

She always indulged me when it came to her son, I could spoil him in any way and she understood, never reprimanded me for being a loving grandmother.

However, my youngest daughter always said, "I'm not going to let my children near you" ... kiddingly of course. But, she moved to Virginia when her daughter was 2 weeks old, and is now in N. C., having her 2nd baby in March.

Many a true word is said in jest, and I firmly believe she uses her children to punish me for, WHATEVAH! Breathing, maybe?

k- I know what you mean about getting stuck in the
middle of a relationship that MUST, really must, be
dealt with by the 2 people who are USING YOU as the
water carrier. Is not fair to you.... and never is it
gonna help THEIR relationship. And putting YOU in the
middle, that is just a total no no!! I think. that if I
were you, that I would tell each one of them that I would
so totally prefer that they communicate more directly,
rather than using you as a go between. It is not ever
going to help them clear up their relationship issues. Boy,
have I been clubbed over the head on this issue a million
times. I ALWAYS WAS the family peacemaker.... and
then I QUIT!!! gOOD gOD - IT FELT GOOD.

Oh WOW, that is so very very cool, you and your
eldest daughter both here on A2K.... I love that.
The 2 of you have such the best rapport, so very
good to see after what I have been thru lately.
Here are 2 women examples for me to SEE, IT CAN
WORK, IT REALLY CAN!! There IS hope for us yet.
So how old are you Rae?

I'm just the peace-maker between the two of them and only for the last few years. I guess I removed myself from the position when I was across the country for 10 years. I honestly don't know if they can communicate more directly. They try, really they do. They just don't seem to understand eachother. It's amazing.

Yes Babs, it can work! If it wasn't for Rae I would have given up long ago, but................

oh duh, Rae isnt here, you are,
So Sorry Misti
I was just so overcome with something, I mean here
you are Misti and you are sooo telling my story, except
Tracey does it to me, not Gwyn - Gwyn would let me keep
Seth for a month if I wanted to. We get on like the greatest
of buddies - easy relationship, enjoy each other, it is sooo
easy..... if only her older sister was not such the bitch..
I like your WHATEVER - but how do you do it??

I do it Babs because I have become very good at detaching ... it's the only way I can do it. I mean if she doesn't see the benefits of her children having a loving grandmother, then who's the stupid one? What child, given the opportunity, would be without that?

I see it this way, she is not only doing an injustice to me but also to her children. And, you know, what goes around comes around. I may not ever see it, but it will happen.

Maybe this is the lesson she's been placed here to learn? Far be it from me to take that from her.

I still have Rae and Doug in my life, so I'm not going to devalue their presence by being upset all the time because of her sister.

Life is too short, and it's not worth it to me.

Anyway, when we are on speaking terms, it's like walking on egg shells around her.

You can't change anyone but yourself, you are the only one you can control, otherwise, it's like pushing the river ...

Someday, yours and mine will see the light, I promise!

Oh thanks Misti
You ARE a godsend, you really are
The REAL reason that all this is so
big of a deal.....
is - that when Jade was born in Hawaii
We all flew over, and Tracey (eldest) came
back home and lived here with me and my
sig other for about 3 years... till she got
done with school, but then got married and
had another child.
Those three years that Jade lived with us, we
were all kind of Jade's parents. So, now that
she has taken him away from us....it isn't as
if it is a child I have never gotten to know and
to love dearly. It is a child that I helped to
mother, and he adores me, and he cries about
the fact that his mom will not let me see him.

Babs, I understand perfectly and your daughter knows she has power over you thru her son, and she's using it. She's really hurting her own son more than she knows because he will resent her for this.

How did you all ever live together for those 3 years without killing each other? It must have been hard.

You must not allow your daughter to have that power over you. Take it back, little by little, leave her with nothing to hold over you.

My heart goes out to you, and I'm wishing and hoping this will all work out for you.

You are in my prayers.

Babs, I'm sorry you are going through this and it does sound as if your daughter perhaps doesn't have excellent judgment and I know that concerns you.

There were several times that my mom and I had to go our own ways for a period of time, perhaps a year or more. She just couldn't or wouldn't be honest with me. She couldn't help me understand her or our relationship or life in a way that I needed to, and her advice and such, well, not only was it off the mark, based on her projecting her needs and values and fears into my situation, she may have been trying to manipulate me for her selfish reasons, too. I certainly couldn't depend on her.

But, after the separations, and a lot of work, we are about as close as she will allow. At least I can share myself with her, if not the other way around. Actually, I do think she is slowly and cautiously opening up.

Anyway, a separation is not a bad thing.

On the other hand, just to take things to the extreme like Dale Carnegie suggests in his book, "How to Stop Worrying and Start Living" . . . (The benefit of taking one's situation to the worst possible outcome is that if you can face that, you can probably improve on the situation, and you will probably sleep at night a little better knowing that you CAN deal with the worst.)

I have a friend whose daughter was mentally ill or on drugs or both, whatever. That daughter had two children. The children were eventually taken away from the daughter, and the grandmother, despite all her considerable efforts, was not able to get the grandkids back. Seems the train of thought is that if the grandmother messed up one kid, why should she have others in her care. Also the age difference in the grandmother adopting two boys was taken into consideration.

If your daughter refuses to allow you to see the kids, then, well, you might have to face the fact that you won't see them for a few years. I'm sure they will seek you out when they can, and they probably won't wait till they are eighteen, either.

My mother separated us from our grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, biological father, et cetera. We were raised with no extended family. My mother needed her privacy to behave the shameful way she did. There wasn't much we, as children, could do.

But, now we all know our grandmother and our biological father, aunts, cousins, and uncles. Life does feel fuller now that I have more family in it.

And comfort yourself with the fact that children can and usually do survive a fair amount of neglect and abuse and even ignorance.

You might also be able to approach a judge about getting grandparent visitation rights. I think that you have a legal leg to stand on there.

Just some random thoughts . . .

http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:1h-w2BxcFQoC:www.keln.org/bibs/pennyfinal.html+%22grandparent+rights%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Girls, this is very interesting and comforting reading. I wish my sister could see this. I guess I'll have to translate it for her.

Urs53, it will be enlightening for your sister too, I hope she sees it that way:)