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MOTHERS AND ADULT DAUGHTERS

 
 
Misti26
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jan, 2003 12:34 am
Ah, mamajuana, I was right! It's lovely to see, and I wish I knew your secret.

As much as I wish my family were close, they are not. I don't know why, they don't have that far to reach!

Good for you!
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babsatamelia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jan, 2003 11:40 am
THIS is SOME KIND OF FASCINATING DISCUSSION
WOMEN!!!
You are all saying some magically majestic things
which I need some time to digest and think through.
I see so much of me in so much of what each one of
you has to say... we share so much mothers and
daughters - and mothers and mothers "ABOUT"
mothers and daughters, not to mention daughters
and daughters "ABOUT" mothers... this is more than
I could have dreamed for ... what a fascinating
list of familial info.
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jan, 2003 06:06 pm
I'm the second of two (I have a brother). Mom and I get along well although it wasn't so when I was a teenager. Then again, I haven't been a teenager since the first Reagan presidency.

Brother and I are planning Mom's 70th birthday party, to be held later this month. It's a little nerve-wracking to get the details right, but I'm looking forward to doing this for her, particularly since she threw a 40th birthday party for me last year (and flew a friend of mine in from Rochester for that weekend - FANTASTIC GIFT!). :-D

Mom is the third child of three (she has an older sister; their older brother is deceased). I don't remember her mother too well as Baba passed away when I was 8, but I recall they got along. My mother often tells me I remind her of her mother, who I now wish I had known in my adult life.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jan, 2003 09:04 pm
Hopefully Sugar and quinn will stop by to relate any gems they may have on the subject.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jan, 2003 11:40 pm
Hey ladies (and gents), I'd love to get your opinions:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=59137#59137
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Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 01:20 am
Mothers & Adult Daughters
Hi Jes

My daughter will celebrate her 40th birthday this month (where does the time go?) and we're planning a surprise birthday party. We've always enjoyed a close and loving relationship, and I thank God for her every day.

When my mom celebrated her 80th birthday, my daughter and I brought mom to see Phantom of the Opera in San Francisco. Limo, the works!
She also met Scott Hamilton the same evening <her very favorite skater on the planet> A neat lady dearly missed as she passed a year and a half ago.

I had to laugh about a conversation my daughter and I had a few month ago.
She called me to say "Mom, I swore it wouldn't happen, but I'm you"!

Like I didn't know. Very Happy
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Rae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 10:08 am
Very Happy
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urs53
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 11:30 am
Truely an interesting thread. And I do envy some of you girls. I'm the last one of three kids - sister, brother, me. My mother's favorite was always my brother. Nowadays, we kids (ha! kids!) call our parents on occasions like Christmas because we are polite. My parents don't live in Germany anymore which is good especially for my sister and her family. They all used to work together in my parents' company. When it went bankrupt things turned really ugly. And my parents are still blaming my sister and her husband.

My brother moved to the US when he was 20 - guess why... My sister got married at 19 - same thing...

When I was a teenager I think my mother didn't really like me (this sounds a bit strong - but I can't think of another word). I was my father's favorite at that time and I guess she was jealous.

My sister, brother and myself are very close now and I am very happy about this. However, I wish I had experienced having parents who told you that they love you. Mine never did. But then again, I don't really know what I missed so it's not that bad.

Lucky for me, I have a very kind mother-in-law. Although she lives in Sweden we are pretty close and I enjoy this very much. My sister also a sweet mother-in-law. So we are getting the love we missed from our mother from them. I appreciate this!
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Misti26
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 02:22 pm
Urs53, I know exactly what you mean!

About being your dad's favorite, your mom was probably a little envious of his attentions toward you, that's a normal reaction for someone who is insecure.

About not getting the love from your mom, I know too well how you feel because my parents never, ever told us they loved us until they were very old, then it was just my mom saying it. They didn't do that in those days, because it just wasn't done.

I often wonder how I would have turned out if I had come from loving parents who built a good sense of self into us and self-confidence. I think things would have been very different with my life, but that's water under the bridge.

Regardless, in spite of what we had to overcome, we are A-OK!
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 03:16 pm
stradee - I got the same thing from my daughters not too long ago. They were shopping for shoes and called me. Said they had hit a new bottom - they were looking at the same shoes I like. I'm not sure how to interpret that, and I won't try.

I've never been able to figure out the dynamics of family relationships. They work, they don't work Sometimes situations are like, sometimes not. One of the mysteries, I guess.

Each of my children says I favored the other. But they gang up on me when they say this, and they change their minds about who was favored. It's no wonder I went gray early (But not for long - By now it must have been every color out there in a bottle.)
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dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 05:21 pm
Hi. I've been keeping up with this and trying to decide whether to air out the family laundry. There just isn't enough room or time!

I've spent many hours thinking and talking about my family and I've read some self-help books, too. The problem with self-help books is that they may help the reader reach his or her potential inspite of their family's and/or significant people's opinions and/or limitations, but they really don't reveal how to get along with the family who caused the problems to begin with, or how to understand them, individually and as a group.

Few people actually know themselves clearly and even those who do will likely not always reveal themselves honestly to others. The same goes for members of families. Sometimes there's lots of secrets and unknowable thought patterns.

People can be and think very differently from each other. It can be very difficult to get into someone else's head and figure them out when all you use to do that is your very own perspective.

I found some answers by studying the DSM-IV on personality disorders. I believe that at one time or another, perhaps under stress, we all exhibit some tendency toward one or the other of these types of behaviors. Not to the extreme perhaps as what is listed under the different personality types, yet, the behaviors and perspectives perhaps do represent the gamut of what people feel and do and why they do it.

I now understand my mother. And I no longer blame her for not being what I needed her to be. All relationships have or should have some boundaries, perhaps even the relationship we have with our own selves. Understanding these boundaries that we impose for our own needs or that others impose on us for their own needs is important to having a healthy relationship.

I can't trust my mother in several areas, and that's OK.

My mom's a histrionic narcissist. . . . So what. My dad was obsessive-compulsive. . . . So what.

My sister's a narcissist (of the sexual-based type). I did not feed my sister's narcissistic supply by agreeing to worship her, so she turned on me and in conversations with my mother cast doubt on every decision I ever made, and on my worth as a human being. My sister drove a wedge between my mother and I so that she could get all her narcissistic supply (adoration, etc.) from my mother.

I finally had to reveal to my mother a list of my sister's faults. I really didn't want to devalue her, but when one is accused, one does have a right to evaluate the worthiness of the judge, I think.

I now have a terrific relationship--such as it can be with someone like her--with my mother.

Although no one ever told me my sister was doing this, actually had been doing this for years, I figured it out by reading about personality disorders and I was able to expose it to my mother and make my sister ineffective at driving us apart.

I could be angry with my family for many reasons, and even angry at other people for being less than what I know they could be, or treating me less kindly that what I think I deserve.

I just try to take a Twainian attidute toward all the foibles we all do to each other.

I will say that it helps to actually understand what that range of foibles might entail.

As I said, I found the answers through the DSM-IV, since people rarely honestly reveal themselves.

http://www.mftsource.com/Treatment.personalitydis.htm

http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:gI6qurhmZ9YC:www.suite101.com/files/topics/6514/files/MSL2excerpts.rtf+%22narcissist%22+%22sibling%22+rivalry&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 05:34 pm
Wow dupre! Good for you!
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dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 06:46 pm
littlek: Thanks for your encouragement. Just now on the phone with my mother I learned she was just diagnosed with diabetes. After all the years of gossip she and my sister participated in against me, it's me she'll be turning to during this time to help with her chores and/or doctor visits.

My sister really can't be bothered.
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quinn1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 06:50 pm
littlek wrote:
Hopefully Sugar and quinn will stop by to relate any gems they may have on the subject.


Im being hailed for gems...oh boy

Id better read up before I blind you with the brilliance of it all
Wink
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Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 07:01 pm
Hel-lo, dupre!
Wow. You said a mouthful. I spent most of my career being a paraprofessional mental health counsellor, and the DSM-4 was my bible.

I concur that everyone has a congregate of traits that lean to at least one MH diagnosis. It was my job to get out the book and find my people, and anticipate their behavior, explain it,... No one without a degree should be asked to do this, but this is the state of MH care in this country. Abysmal.

I found myself leaning in a few areas. As I said, everyone does.

When I began to chafe at the way I was being treated(by my mom), I did the most objective self-examination I could. I do try to see my faults, and I am as honest about myself as I know how to be. But, you have a valid point. Sometimes, even when we look, we don't see.

That career has helped me be much slower to anger, and aided in trying to see other people's views.

A much appreciated contribution from you.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 07:11 pm
dupre, good luck to you and your mom on the diabetes front!
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quinn1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 07:12 pm
I really dont think I could appropriately put into words the relationship I have with my mother. Its almost non existant, but then again not. It certainly isnt that of great friends, and it certainly sways from the norm of typical or even atypical mother-daughter relationships.
There are great and wonderful things I could say about my ma <yes, nothern thing> but, then again there are a great many negative things I can say as well. It doesnt mean I dont love her, I do. It also doesnt mean she doesnt love me, Im pretty sure she does.
I accept her.
Its been a large growing/healing thing for me. We are both still young and have a long way to go, perhaps someday it will be more, perhaps less. I have no idea.
FYI...I am an only child. I think my relationship with my mother when I was a little one was absolutely fabulous. Life intrudes however and things change. People change, circumstances change, and possiblities change. Stuff happens. I try not to hold my mother responsible for many things but, do continue to have issues with her at many times. At one time however, she was my hero, no matter what happened, she rose above it all and continued on. She did what she had to do, how she had to do it and no matter the consequences, it all worked out fine.
We're good. Not great, and certainly not close but hey, we email a great deal and talk on occassion, thats more than alot can say.
I have my moments, then the moment is gone. In the scheme of things, it is little and life is short, I just do what I can when I can.

Actually, reading over the above....pretty darn positive compared to usual....k knows...shes listened to me whine about it...thanks k BTW Smile
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 07:21 pm
Sure thing quinn, thanks for sharing. Glad to hear more on the good side of your relationship with your ma.
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quinn1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 07:46 pm
I do have alot of negative issues that when lumped together show a pretty bad relationship, but taken apart are more our battling to accept each other for who we are individually or for realizing that the past is the past, you cannot go back and change it, just go forward and learn from it, accept it.
A great deal of effort on my part is spent accepting our differences and getting past them so that there is some sort of relationship. Serious faults are included in there as well, which makes it even harder. Those are the things that although I accept I dont know if I could live with in any other level of a relationship, so I dont know about it ever changing from what it is now.

Accepting her personality or perhaps the challenge of our clashing personalities...ugh....all I can say is...a Virgo in a house of Pisces...yeesh...surprising we didnt kill each other. Wink
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babsatamelia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2003 08:25 pm
Hello Lash,
So sorry for the pain it must have been causing you for
so many years, yet I AM happy for the truths it brought
out into the open.....that visit to the pastor or whoever was
a godsend. I doubt that your mom ever saw herself as
seeing you as a failed version of herself. NOW - she has
a new version of how life really is - to look at, and that is
always the test of really toughest maturity.....do we look
deeply into this new truth to see who we really are, or do
we walk, or run away and refuse to see what may be very
painful to look upon???
I was the second daughter, and always my mothers
favorite, guilt guilt guilt guilt, I could never see why
my older sister didn't just quit trying so hard...that was
what made their relationship so difficult it seemed to
me as a kid. Why try - when it brings pain to you in
the end..... the fact that she gave me less grief than
my older sister DID always make me feel guilty.
All of my 3 daughters each have different stories
about who is what. The oldest two used to always say
I favored the youngest. The youngest says I favor the
oldest, and the middle one (who I get along with the
best) thinks that I favor her the least !!!
I don't get it - most of the years they were growing
up - I was so busy... I had to get a divorce from their
maniac, drug addled, alcoholic, vietnam mental casualty
father at the age of 25....... and I had not even finished
high school. So, during the years they were growing up
I was working a part time job, going to school full time,
and trying to be some kind of a decent parent...at least
to do the best I could with the limited time that I had. I
was FAR too busy dealing with issues like survival to have
favorites or anything like that. They were always watching
TV or doing homework and I was glued to my homework
most nights till long after they went to bed. I had been
accepted to Pharmacy School at Pitt and I had to work my
butt off - I was considerably older than the other students...
and I had not taken honors classes like chemistry in high
school....I had not even finished high school. So I had
to do all that before - at a local community college. I
only know that my oldest daughter has such anger, that it
can only be caused by a very very deep fear of some kind.
I wish there were a way I could help, but it seems not.
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