24
   

Israel's Reality

 
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 10:26 am
@izzythepush,
I hate to keep repeating, "I know" but really, that article is just so on spot. The world does just keep allowing it all to happen. They just keep passing meaningless denouncements that really don't amount to a hill of beans to neither Palestinians or Israelis. I wish the US would stop being Israel "friend" until all these wrongs are put to rights. At this stage, I hope Palestinians and Arabs/Muslims have accepted that Israel is going to exist and work on what they can get out of the world community in terms of a viable state for Palestinians. Or maybe not even a State but just a one state with everybody being equal. But I don't think any of it will happen, either the world, or Palestinians or Israelis. I see no end in sight.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 10:44 am
@revelette2,
It will only stop when American politicians realise there's no capital in supporting Israel.
ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 11:28 am
@izzythepush,
Interesting point and probably right.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 12:49 pm
@izzythepush,
I wouldn't say there is no capital, just maybe not as much as some would think. I really don't know.

What about the rest of the world?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 01:31 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
What about the rest of the world?



What about it? America is still the most powerful country on Earth with a veto at the security council. Israel's probably thinking the rest of the world doesn't matter.

We do a lot of trade in the EU but the largest country, Germany, is terrified of criticising Israel for obvious reasons.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 01:50 pm
@izzythepush,
I am just thinking, more could be done other than mouthing platitudes by other countries, but perhaps they do, I haven't really looked into it.

On the other hand, I suppose in the end, you are right, it seems that we (the US) expect all the real concessions to be made by Palestinians before any real peace agreements can be reached, much less, a real State for Palestinians. Every time Palestine agrees to cease fire, Israel just keeps on building more settlements and no one does anything about it, so more rockets gets launched and the vicious cycle continues, meanwhile, Palestine continue to suffer.
Frank Apisa
 
  6  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:09 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

It will only stop when American politicians realise there's no capital in supporting Israel.


Then it probably will never stop...because for the politicians...THERE IS CAPITAL IN SUPPORTING ISRAEL.

And lots of it.


Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:11 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

We do a lot of trade in the EU but the largest country, Germany, is terrified of criticising Israel for obvious reasons.


"Terrified," or understanding (aka, empathetic)?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

izzythepush wrote:

It will only stop when American politicians realise there's no capital in supporting Israel.


Then it probably will never stop...because for the politicians...THERE IS CAPITAL IN SUPPORTING ISRAEL.

And lots of it.





And that is because the business of the U.S. is business, in my opinion. Let us both agree that this great Protestant nation, called the U.S., is quite content to benefit from Israel's technology, and fulfillment of bible prophecy. You are not living in a Catholic Europe, may I point out.
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

Then it probably will never stop...because for the politicians...THERE IS CAPITAL IN SUPPORTING ISRAEL.

And lots of it.


Yes indeed! AIPAC pays handsomely to both parties, Dems and Repukes! I was surprised to hear Nancy Pelosi saying "Israel has a right to defend itself" and she could have continued saying at the expense of slaying every live Palestinians in Gaza who has no where to hide, no where to run, from the mighty army and weapons supplied by the US.

Hey, the world did not intervene in Rwanda, so why should we be surprised that Israel is allowed to get away with this massacre of the Palestinian people while the US defends the Zionist actions.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Then it probably will never stop...because for the politicians...THERE IS CAPITAL IN SUPPORTING ISRAEL.


There is at the moment, but I don't think there's quite as much as there was a few weeks ago.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:26 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I am just thinking, more could be done other than mouthing platitudes by other countries, but perhaps they do, I haven't really looked into it.


There's the economic boycott, and buying Palestinian goods. MIT is involved in the academic boycott, but all of these things are limited.

At the PSO we disrupt cultural and sporting events by Israelis, if nothing else it lets the Israelis know just how sickening their actions are.

What we could do is get rid of the security council vetoes, and get a commitment from all the permanent security council members to implement resolutions, but that's not likely to happen.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:33 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

izzythepush wrote:

It will only stop when American politicians realise there's no capital in supporting Israel.


Then it probably will never stop...because for the politicians...THERE IS CAPITAL IN SUPPORTING ISRAEL.

And lots of it.






And that is because the business of the U.S. is business, in my opinion. Let us both agree that this great Protestant nation, called the U.S., is quite content to benefit from Israel's technology, and fulfillment of bible prophecy. You are not living in a Catholic Europe, may I point out.


My point was easy to understand, Foofie.

There is a great deal of "capital" that accrues to politicians in this country for supporting Israel.

I do not see that changing much any time soon.

Foofie
 
  3  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Then you should get an "A+" for being a realist.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 02:41 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Then you should get an "A+" for being a realist.


Thank you.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 05:17 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
izzythepush wrote:
Exactly, the Israelis aren't remotely interested in peace, if they were they would have suspended building illegal settlements on occupied land. This activity has accelerated during Netanyahu's premiership.

Try asking yourself why.

Izzythepush is lying again. Israel tried over and over again to negotiate peace with the Palestinians.

If Israel chooses to stop trying now, a likely reason will be because if they keep trying, the only thing that they will have to show for their trouble is yet more lies claiming that they didn't do it.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 05:24 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
I know, I honestly can't understand why the Israelis can't or will not accept this main cause of the "conflict in the Middle East" in recent years is not really the rhetoric of Arab/Muslims thinking Israel should cease to exists, so much as it is the ever expanding settlements being built and other issues such as that.

The reason they don't accept it, is because it isn't even remotely true.


revelette2 wrote:
I realize that rocket launching more often than not, ends up just getting their own killed, but what else can they do?

The Palestinians could have negotiated for peace instead of trying to murder innocent people.


revelette2 wrote:
No one is making Israel obey the laws and take down their illegal settlements, they just keep telling them they need to, while Israel just keeps building them.

That's because in the absence of a Palestinian willingness to make peace, Israel has every right to build settlements.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 05:24 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
NATO and the UN, 2 tools developed by the US to maintain a degree of peace, have been undermined by reckless US politics. Nobody trusts Washington anymore... That doesn't look like a good combination to me.

Don't blame your anti-Americanism on anyone other than yourself.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 05:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
the Right of Return or the surrender of Jerusalem (two non-starters for Israel)

Actually Israel was willing to share Jerusalem.

I didn't like it myself, but it seems clear that they were willing to do it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2014 05:33 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
On the other hand, I suppose in the end, you are right, it seems that we (the US) expect all the real concessions to be made by Palestinians before any real peace agreements can be reached, much less, a real State for Palestinians.

No, we merely expect the Palestinians to make concessions too, rather than Israel make all the concessions.


revelette2 wrote:
Every time Palestine agrees to cease fire, Israel just keeps on building more settlements and no one does anything about it,

No one is supposed to do anything about it. If the Palestinians want a halt to settlement construction, they can come to the bargaining table and negotiate for it.


revelette2 wrote:
so more rockets gets launched and the vicious cycle continues, meanwhile, Palestine continue to suffer.

If the Palestinians ever get tired of suffering, they can always stop murdering innocent people and start making peace.
0 Replies
 
 

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