28
   

More American War in Iraq?

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 03:31 pm
You just can't give up the pretence, can ya?
bobsal u1553115
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 03:34 pm
@Setanta,
Well put.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 03:44 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

You just can't give up the pretence, can ya?

claims of ignorance would be more convincing if they were accompanied with a list of errors. It sounds to me that the major error here is yours, you and Walter are stuck in the past, you dont understand how the Kurds of Iraq getting their own territory and oil changes everything that you think you know about the Kurds.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:08 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
You are missing the point of this insurgency COMPLETELY!
Which is a shame seeing as your taxes are funding it - As they did in Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Sudan.....

Watch the Vid I linked and see from beyond your media's propaganda machine.

Hegelian dialectic
1. CREATE THE PROBLEM
2. REACT TO IT
3. RESOLVE IT

You'll be strip-bombing Iraq in a few hours, and not only have to pay for the weaponry deployed, but to replenish ISIL's Arsenal too.

The same stablemaster/s OWN ALL THE HORSES.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:09 pm
Quote:
Iraq's largest oil refinery, 130 miles north of Baghdad, was seized by ISIS rebels today. From the New York Times:

A refinery worker who gave only his first name, Mohammad, reached by telephone, said that the refinery had been attacked at 4 a.m. and that workers had taken refuge in underground bunkers. In the course of the fighting, 17 gas storage tanks were set ablaze, although it was not clear by which side. After taking heavy losses, the troops guarding the facility surrendered and at least 70 were taken prisoner, he said.
Refinery workers were sent home unharmed by the extremists, Mohammad said.
It's the first refinery to fall to rebels (most of the country's oil fields and export facilities are located further south), and its output reportedly all goes toward domestic consumption.

For what it's worth, the Iraqi military is claiming that it not only repelled the attack on the refinery but also took back the northern city of Tal Afar, though neither claim seems to be supported by media reports. (The Times, for example, creditably sources its assertion that the refinery has fallen to "refinery workers, eyewitnesses and an Iraqi army officer who fled the scene.")

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/06/18/isis_oil_refinery_facility_seized_by_rebels.html

Maliki's run of military incompetence continues.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
What you think you know about the Kurds is what you impoerfectly absorbed running around the internet this afternoon. You're not folling anyone here.
bobsal u1553115
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:12 pm
@Setanta,
They certainly could remove the PKK pebble from their shoe by at least some sort of recognition of some form of Kurdistani state. The Kurds and Turks have a lot in common that could help stability in the region if not just in Turkey and "Kurdistan". Neither the Turks nor the Kurds are anything less than supurb fighters.

ISIS no challenge to Turkey at any rate. And ISIS seems to be overly spead out and bogging down.

The Iraqi army is at 330,000 active and 550,000 reserves. This isn't over yet. This is mainly about speculation in the oil market.

Turkey plans to double its 270,000 active duty troops by the end of this year. There could always be an accommodation, Turkey did finally appologize for the Armenian genocide. Nobody saw that coming. There hasn't been any serious PPK violence though the events in the park in Istambul last year have promised to repeat themseves again this year.

Has it been happening and the press here isn't reporting it?

ISIS is more rabble than movement. How does the RW deny this?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:14 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

What you think you know about the Kurds is what you impoerfectly absorbed running around the internet this afternoon. You're not folling anyone here.


1) you are in no position to know what I know nor how I know it so your claims are absurd.

2) you have yet to produce a list of my errors.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:15 pm
Support (or the lack of it) for the PKK is definitely the key to relations between Turkey and the Iraqi Kurds.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:16 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
The Iraqi army is at 330,000 active and 550,000 reserves.
and yet a force of a few thousand has been kicking their ass for over a week, to the point that Maliki is begging for US air support.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
To quote some of your typical bullsh*t,i am not your research assistant. How do i know you're full of sh*t? I'm Zen, i just know these things. (Another standard line of your BS.)
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:44 pm
@Setanta,
Finally a good explanation for why the Iraq army folded....turns out that the ISIS was smart enough to plant an operative to sell the story that Malikis Army was about to be overrun by a great force. The Officers then ran away.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/15/iraq-isis-arrest-jihadists-wealth-power
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
Which has what to do with me? Trying to claim an extraordinary wisdom again?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 04:52 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Which has what to do with me? Trying to claim an extraordinary wisdom again?

Since you are interested in learning up on the subject I thought I would try to help you out some. The root of the unwillingness of Maliki's army to fight after we invested tens of billions of dollars and years of training into it has been one of the great questions of this last week. Now we know.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 05:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
We know see why Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is largely considered to be the legit successor to Osama Bin Laden....the rise of the ISIS has been stunningly quick, with obvious strategic and tactical brilliance, credit has to go to the leader.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 05:15 pm
The United States should not cooperate with Iran on Iraq

Quote:
The idea that the United States...shares a common interest with the Islamic Republic of Iran, a revolutionary theocracy that is the No. 1 state sponsor of terrorism in the world, is as fanciful as the notion that Neville Chamberlain and Adolf Hitler could work together for the good of Europe.


Quote:
Indeed, the non-jihadist Syrian opposition insists that ISIS is a creation of Iran. In typical Middle East fashion, the Syrians overstate the case, but there is much evidence that Iran and its Syrian allies have cooperated with ISIS. Don’t forget that ISIS (then known as al-Qaeda in Iraq) was launched by the late Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who, U.S. intelligence believes, received aid, shelter and financial support from Iran after he was chased out of Afghanistan by U.S. forces in 2001. Zarqawi received even more support from Iran’s close ally, Syria, which allowed its territory to be used to supply al-Qaeda in Iraq with a steady stream of foreign fighters.

As recently as 2012, the Treasury Department identified Iran as supportive of ISIS, which has reportedly grown fat in no small part due to deals with the Assad regime for oil from wells under its control. That’s right. According to Western intelligence sources, Assad, Iran’s top client in the region, has a business partnership with ISIS even though ISIS has been fighting his regime. (Assad’s motives are varied, but among them is thought to be a desire to boost jihadist fighters so as to discredit the opposition in Western eyes.)


Quote:
The United States would be making a historic error if it were to assist such an Iranian-orchestrated ethnic-cleansing campaign with air power or even with diplomatic support. Not only would this be morally reprehensible, it would be strategically stupid because it would convince the region’s Sunni Muslims that the United States is siding against them with Iran and its regional allies. This could lead Sunni states such as Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates to support extremists such as ISIS, further feeding the growing sectarian conflict across the region.


Quote:
If current trends continue, the United States will be faced with a nuclear Iran standing off against a Sunni Arab world in which al-Qaeda is a more important player than ever and in which at least one state (probably Saudi Arabia) acquires nuclear weapons of its own. Faced with such a prospect, we should not be pursuing a chimerical alliance with Iran. We don’t have to, and should not, ally with one group of terrorists to fight another.


Michael Doran is a senior fellow at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution. Max Boot is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 05:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
I don't need lessons from you, that's for sure. I had not commented on the quality of the Iraqi army.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 06:50 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Quote:
The idea that the United States...shares a common interest with the Islamic Republic of Iran, a revolutionary theocracy that is the No. 1 state sponsor of terrorism in the world, is as fanciful as the notion that Neville Chamberlain and Adolf Hitler could work together for the good of Europe.


LOL.........

Quote:


http://www.military-history.org/articles/winston-churchill-quotes.htm

2. On Hitler’s invasion of Russia, and Britain’s tenuous alliance with Stalin:

“If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons.”
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 07:48 pm
@BillRM,
Did you read the article or only the quote?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jun, 2014 08:05 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn:
The idea that the United States...shares a common interest with the Islamic Republic of Iran, a revolutionary theocracy that is the No. 1 state sponsor of terrorism in the world, is as fanciful as the notion that Neville Chamberlain and Adolf Hitler could work together for the good of Europe.

--------------

Who wrote this crap, Finn? The USA is número uno terrorist group by a wide wide margin over the world totality of terrorism.
 

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