28
   

More American War in Iraq?

 
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:04 am
@oralloy,
If Iran is already sending their planes and we send ours, I somehow don't think there are going to nuclear talks involved. I hope Iran solves it rather than us.
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:07 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

We did create this mess, it might be like Colin Powell said, "you break it, you own it."


very much my view on the this

the US and its allies created this mess by way of their invasion - they get to stinking fix it

learning something about the culture/s in the region would have gone a long way to prevent the current schmozzle from developing but I'm not convinced that is in the US skillset anymore
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:42 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Yeah, like we are just itching to get back to Iraq, personally, I can't think of anything worse for the US.

Having al-Qa'ida conquer the world, commit genocide against all non-Muslims, abolish freedom and democracy, and make it a capital offense to teach a woman to read, would be worse for the US.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:43 am
@ehBeth,
Well, I hope you are wrong in that we somehow develop some skills in that area. However, I guess first things first and we really don't want to get bogged down and people start accusing us of wanting to "take over Iraq" as though we actually want it after all the troubles we and they have had so far. Iraqis are asking for our help and I feel we are practically obligated to them in helping if we can without making things worse.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:44 am
@oralloy,
Well, you always do think in extremes and kind of in a self interest kind of way.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:45 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
If Iran is already sending their planes and we send ours, I somehow don't think there are going to nuclear talks involved. I hope Iran solves it rather than us.

Iran doesn't have much of an air force. I wouldn't expect them to provide any sort of competent air power in support of their ground troops.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:46 am
Well, Malicki didn't let Sunni's into the government - sort of a be careful what you set up maneuver.

I didn't want us there in the first place or over the long term we were there, and certainly not now, to "fix it". Only more distaste for the US can come from it, or so I am thinking. Ugh, ugh, and more ugh.

Adds - I know this situation is disheartening at the least for our soldiers who made so many sacrifices to help Iraq all these years. I'm not clear that our bombing some more is useful in the long run.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:46 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
the US and its allies created this mess by way of their invasion - they get to stinking fix it

We are not responsible for the fact that terrorists are trying to kill everyone.

That said, we should in fact step in and do something about these terrorists.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:47 am
Whenever America and the West can smell oil in any country, they'll always have an interest there..Wink
"In war, one has neither friends nor enemies, only interests"- Winston Churchill

WIKI- "Oil reserves in Iraq are considered the world’s fifth-largest proven oil reserves, with 150 billion barrels"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Iraq
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:54 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Well, you always do think in extremes

That is incorrect. I think in facts.

And it is a fact that these attacks are an attempt to conquer the world, commit genocide against all non-Muslims, abolish freedom and democracy (granted by that point all non-Muslims will be dead from the preceding genocide), and make it a capital offense to teach a woman how to read.


revelette2 wrote:
and kind of in a self interest kind of way.

That much is true. I find it very much in my interest to not have my head sawed off by terrorists.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 07:57 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

the US and its allies created this mess by way of their invasion - they get to stinking fix it


It was clear that invading Iraq was a really bad idea, which is why so many of us marched against the war in the first place. Something like this was bound to happen, and we'll be clearing up Bush's mess for a very long time to come.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 08:01 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Whenever America and the West can smell oil in any country, they'll always have an interest there..Wink
"In war, one has neither friends nor enemies, only interests"- Winston Churchill

WIKI- "Oil reserves in Iraq are considered the world’s fifth-largest proven oil reserves, with 150 billion barrels"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Iraq

Our current interest in Iraq has very little to do with oil. It has more to do with not wishing to be the victims of genocide.

It is true though that, if someone decided to block Iraq from selling their oil, we'd act against that.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 08:25 am
"Bin-Laden is dead and al-Qaeda is one the run."

Straight to Baghdad.

From what I have read thus far. The US has agreed to increase the presence of surveillance drones, despite the fact that the initial presence was apparently useless in preventing the fall of Mosul and Takrit.

The ISIS (al-Qaeda) forces "liberated" $450 million from a bank in Mosul. Even if they are driven from the city, that cash is going straight to the funding of the jihad. They also have seized very large quantities of American weapons and equipment.

This has disaster written all over it.

If the Iranians provide the support necessary to defeat ISIS, it will only drive Iraq even further into Iran's sphere of influence. Not something the Sunni states will welcome.

ISIS doesn't have to take all of Iraq, although they will happily do so if allowed, to be successful in their goals. Their name, Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (The Islamic State of Iraq and Levant as they are known by some) says it all. Their goal is to carve out territory in both Iraq and Syria to establish the first stone in the foundation of the Caliphate. While any such "nation" will essentially be Sunni, I doubt Saudi Arabia will see this as a mitigating factor.

They may have sowed the seeds of their own defeat by seizing Turkish diplomats as hostages. This gives Turkey a real reason or pretext to involve its military, and with that comes the questions of NATO support. If I were al-Baghdadi (I don't believe the Iraqi claim that they killed him) I would put all the Turkish hostages on an air-conditioned bus and deliver them to a Turkish border station tomorrow. Hoping nothing bad befalls the hostages, but I think or the US and current Iraqi regime it would be better if ISIS didn't follow my advice.

It's highly unlikely that US troops will be needed to defeat them (and I can't imagine this president sending them in under any circumstances), but US air support probably will. It will carry some risk for the American pilots (as any military action would) but they won't be facing the enemy in the skies and essentially the same mission was accomplished in Libya without American casualties, despite the crashes of two US aircraft due to mechanical problems. The real risk is a similar crash(s) with the pilot or crew being captured by the enemy. Very problematic on a lot of levels if this were to happen, so it's a risk that has to be weighed against the risk of ISIS achieving its goal.

Barring a miraculous turn-around by Iraqi forces or the successful impact of the IRG battalion Iran has already sent over there, I don't see how the US can avoid providing air support and I think the president will reluctantly do so.

Note: If we provide air support there will be American boots on the ground, but not in the sense that phrase is typically used. There will be ground support for targeting and possible pilot rescue mission; Special Forces most likely. They will all likely be classified as "advisors."
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 09:03 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

the US and its allies created this mess by way of their invasion - they get to stinking fix it


It was clear that invading Iraq was a really bad idea, which is why so many of us marched against the war in the first place. Something like this was bound to happen, and we'll be clearing up Bush's mess for a very long time to come.


Why start with Bush.? The real beginning occurred much earlier. The truly insane boundaries of Iraq, a composite of three distinct Ottoman Provinces; one Sunni, one Shia, and one Kurdish, were drawn by the British Empire after they destroyed the Ottomans in WWI. Iraq was unstable from the moment of its creation (a typical British Empire approach, involving the creation of internally divided entities that the British believed they could control with minimal effort). The British found themselves thrown out by the Iraqis & Turks during the 1020s when their occupying army was surrounded and surrendered.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 05:46 pm
@oralloy,
Check under you bed, there's an al Qaeda jihadist either coming or going.

Either that or your house cleaning resembles your mental health.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 05:52 pm
@revelette2,
At this point, I think I would agree. Certainly, if that's our choice, it would be nice to have some idea of what we think a desired outcome would be.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 08:37 pm
@izzythepush,
I was a woman in black, though not long. I remember the loud horns from the trucks. Some pro. And on a side street, some asshole thought my niece was a prostitute when she was thirteen, her walking our dog while being part black.

And so what? so what for all of us? Hate is horrible.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 09:04 pm
It is time for the world and for the Iraqi people to give up on Iraq. It should become three countries. This is mostly the fault of the USA.........first we took out Saddam, then we took apart the state apparatus, then we bungled the admittedly difficult task of making a new state apparatus, to include tolerating the SHia thug Maliki. The final straw was getting in the way of Bashar al-Assad as he tried to hold his country together.

The clock has run out, time for the political lines to match the political reality is the zone formerly know as Iraq.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2014 09:20 pm
@ehBeth,
I may understand you, but I am not sure what I think is your take is what you are saying..

Does that mean we need to go back and fix stuff with bombs?

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2014 01:38 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
It is time for the world and for the Iraqi people to give up on Iraq. It should become three countries.

Perhaps. But we can't have one of those three states being the seed of al-Qa'ida's drive to conquer the world and genocide all non-Muslims.
0 Replies
 
 

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