!
I don't have to smell to know that certain people on this board are turds. It is obvious in the manner in which they communicate here.
There is much more to this story that is now surfacing on CBS.
There are many inconsistent pieces of the events surrounding Berg's presence in Iraq and his background. It is becoming obvious that this is becoming a not so obvious execution. My post did not state that I am convinced of the phoney execution but that I am skeptical of it and asking questions about it and following it closely.
DC36 I heard on the news tonight that the family is very unhappy re how this is being handled by the government. Hmm, perhaps another Emmitt Till situation we will have to wait 50 years to know the truth.
Fedral wrote:I think one of the things that angered me the most, was Al-Jazera decided to broadcast THIS particular execution after refusing to broadcast the execution of the Italian soldier that was killed several weeks ago. They claimed that it was because it was too 'graphic' and yet they showed a man getting his head cut off this time.
The only difference was... hmm... lets see... oh yes, the Italian soldier showed monumental bravery in the face of those murderers, even going so far as to tell them 'I'll show you how an Italian soldier dies' before they killed him and Berg died screaming ... yes, Al-J has integrity and objectivity.
The problem with the media (including the Western outlets) is their inability to distinguish between the relative LEVELS of wrongdoing. In their minds for some reason, humiliating a few detainees has become a much more morally outrageous action that cutting a poor innocent mans throat and sawing his head off and displaying it to a camera. Where is the outrage over this young mans death ?? The only outrage from the press seems to be for the military for 'bringing this action upon ourselves' as if the action of the murderers is somehow justified when compared with the actions at Abu prison.
Can someone explain this in some sort of sane manner ?
Ah, Fedral - rape, murder and such has become, to you, "humiliating a few detainees"?
Your moral compass appears a few degrees out - and who has said there is no reason for outrage over Berg's death, pray tell?
The difference is, that, when appalling acts are done by those America pays, in the service - in their eyes at least - of the American government, it seems right that America reacts to attempt to stop this, through the expression of its opinion to its government. There is, I assume, no doubt in anyone's mind that full attention will be given to the capture of the murderers of Berg.
This is not a simple, stupid, binary, opposition - it is not "denounce systemic torture of detainees by American guards"/"support Berg's murderers". Mot of our moral universes are able to encompass condemning both, with no cognitive dissonance.
Just some thoughts here.
Nic had already traveled fairly extensively, Europe, Africa, elsewhere and while a flight into Bagdad might be a problem a flight into Kuwait is
$1347.oo round trip from NYC. We could go tomorrow. Shall we?
Some people do dangerous things on their own all time, even while the rest of us live lives of quiet desperation, they are off wherever they want to go. My sister hitchhiked through Egypt during the 1967 war, I have friends who traded diamonds (and other things) throughout Africa during very unstable times (you pick the year and
try to think of a recent stable time.
)and another friend, Charlie, worked his way across Greece then took a day boat to Cyprus without a dinar in his pocket.
Risk. Taking chances. That's how you get to feel deep in your gut that you're alive.
and it might get you killed but so what....
Joe
hi pistoff- Don't let your blood pressure rise. The great thing about avatars is when you see one you don't like, just scroll.
I do this and pass right over them and avoid ugliness this way.
Uh
Thanks Dee. Nah, my BP doesn't rise with what some turds on this board type. Most of the time they type their shite just to try to make others angry. I jus feel like speakin' up once in awhile about it.
Topic: This story is getting weirder. More...later.
Deecups36 wrote:There are no scheduled American or foreign commercial airline flights to anyplace in Baghdad.
Yeah. You keep chanting that and maybe it will come true. But Walter very clearly posted scheduled flight info and the link on where to find it on the previous page.
dlowan wrote:
Ah, Fedral - rape, murder and such has become, to you, "humiliating a few detainees"?
Your moral compass appears a few degrees out - and who has said there is no reason for outrage over Berg's death, pray tell?
The difference is, that, when appalling acts are done by those America pays, in the service - in their eyes at least - of the American government, it seems right that America reacts to attempt to stop this, through the expression of its opinion to its government. There is, I assume, no doubt in anyone's mind that full attention will be given to the capture of the murderers of Berg.
This is not a simple, stupid, binary, opposition - it is not "denounce systemic torture of detainees by American guards"/"support Berg's murderers". Mot of our moral universes are able to encompass condemning both, with no cognitive dissonance.
I have seen pictures and concrete proof of humiliation by prison guards, I have not seen ANY proof of murders by us personnel in Abu prison ... as to the rape... I do not know (and neither do you) until some proof has been offered ...
dlowan, until you can give me a link to proof that the murders and rapes occurred, they remain unfounded allegations ... whereas the death of Mr Berg was shown in living color, on tape for all to see. THATS the difference.
dlowan wrote:Fedral wrote:The problem with the media (including the Western outlets) is their inability to distinguish between the relative LEVELS of wrongdoing. In their minds for some reason, humiliating a few detainees has become a much more morally outrageous action that cutting a poor innocent mans throat and sawing his head off and displaying it to a camera. Where is the outrage over this young mans death ?? The only outrage from the press seems to be for the military for 'bringing this action upon ourselves' as if the action of the murderers is somehow justified when compared with the actions at Abu prison.
Can someone explain this in some sort of sane manner ?
Ah, Fedral - rape, murder and such has become, to you, "humiliating a few detainees"?
No one has been charged with rape and murder. Except for beatings and an accusation of sodomy with a chemical light stick, the soldiers at the prison stand accused of nothing worse than a fraternity hazing.
As for explaining the media's actions, it's "sweeps" time and they need more viewers so they can rake in the cash with both hands. Pictures of the beheading make people turn away, and pictures of naked prisoners make them watch more closely. It might be more about the money than about showing what's really important.
fishin' wrote:Deecups36 wrote:There are no scheduled American or foreign commercial airline flights to anyplace in Baghdad.
Yeah. You keep chanting that and maybe it will come true. But Walter very clearly posted scheduled flight info and the link on where to find it on the previous page.
The flight this morning (8:00 PM local time) definately was departing: heart an interview with a German radio correspondent, who used it.
These flight are going regularily since a couple of weeks (kind of "regular charter flights"), normally booked out for weeks in advance.
Therefore, some German border policemen tried to trvel by car, because they missed the booked flights. Two were killed in Iraq in an attack, as you may remember, in early April.
CIA
The CIA had reported that he was dead but changed that eval. Then they reported one of his legs was amputated due to him being caught in an explosion. Later they reported that was not the case. Does anyone wonder why I don't take the CIA's word for a damn thing?
The CIA is well known for their Psy Ops and Black Ops. This is the main reason I question this timely execution.
This guy's photo has been on TV numerous times. Why did he feel that he had to disquise himself when it was announced by his group that he was part of this execution?
hi pistoff- The neocons needed a symbol and an antidote to the Abu Ghraib prison pictures theatening the WH. They got both in the Nick Berg beheading story and pictures. But something still doesn't make sense here. From the timelime to his being held captive and who actually committed the crime.
I will go out on a limb here and say I think he was sacrificed.
New York Times editorial, Published: May 14, 2004
Nicholas Berg's Death
It's easy to say he should not have been in Iraq, but Nicholas Berg was a type familiar to all danger zones: an adventurous and naïve young man who was perhaps keen to do a bit of business, but keener yet to test himself; old enough to understand the danger, but young enough to defy it. It is impossible not to feel grief, and horror, at his terrible end.
The claim of this young American's murderers that they were retaliating for the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners is a cruel ruse. They killed him out of the same madness that drove their comrades in Al Qaeda to slaughter thousands on Sept. 11, 2001. But this manipulative attempt to establish a moral equivalence between the gruesome execution of Mr. Berg and the torture of Iraqi prisoners is now being mimicked by some hard-core supporters of the American war in Iraq. They are cynically trying to use the images of Mr. Berg to wipe away the images of Abu Ghraib, turning the abhorrence for the murderers into an excuse for demonizing Arabs and Muslims, or for sanctioning their torture.
Mr. Berg's parents have legitimate questions for the United States government about how he came to be in Iraqi police custody immediately before his kidnapping, what happened to him there and what knowledge American officials had about his situation. The occupation authority needs to stop passing off those questions to the Iraqi police force, which does not exist other than as an agent of American power. The Berg family deserves answers so they can grieve for their son's death in peace.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/14/opinion/14FRI2.html
The truth is out there. Getting through the bodyguard of lies, thats the real problem.
Sam
provocative comments on this site
Provocative comments on this site:
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/05/con04214.html
Berg's encounter with 'terrorist' revealed
Berg's encounter with 'terrorist' revealed
Friday, May 14, 2004 Posted: 8:01 AM EDT (1201 GMT)
Nicholas Berg
WEST CHESTER, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- When Nicholas Berg took an Oklahoma bus to a remote college campus a few years ago, the American recently beheaded by terrorists allowed a man with terrorist connections to use his laptop computer, according to his father.
Michael Berg said the FBI investigated the matter more than a year ago. He stressed that his son was in no way connected to the terrorists who captured and killed him.
Government sources told CNN that the encounter involved an acquaintance of Zacarias Moussaoui -- the only person publicly charged in the United States in connection with the September 11, 2001, terror attacks.
According to Berg, his son was taking a course a few years ago at a remote campus of the University of Oklahoma near an airport. He described how on one particular day, his son met "some terrorist people -- who no one knew were terrorists at the time."
At one point during the bus ride, Berg said, the man sitting next to his son asked if he could use Nick's laptop computer.
"It turned out this guy was a terrorist and that he, you know, used my son's e-mail, amongst many other people's e-mail who he did the same thing to," Berg said.
Government sources said Berg gave the man his password, which was later used by Moussaoui, the sources said.
The sources said the man who used Berg's e-mail knew Moussaoui, now awaiting trial on federal charges that could bring a death sentence. But the sources would not disclose details of how the men were connected.
Moussaoui, 36, was arrested in August 2001 after he aroused suspicion at a Minnesota flight school when he arrived for 747 simulator training without holding a pilot's license. A French national of Moroccan descent, Moussaoui has admitted in open court that he belonged to al Qaeda, the radical Islamic group behind the September 11 attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people.
But Moussaoui has fiercely denied being involved in the September 11 plot, and the prosecutors' theory of his role has shifted from being a possible 20th hijacker that day to possibly piloting a fifth hijacked jetliner targeting the White House.
Berg said his son cooperated fully with an FBI investigation into the matter.
"He was happy to cooperate, and that was never an issue," he said. He emphasized that the individual was not a friend of his son's or even an acquaintance -- "just a guy sitting next to him on the bus."
"Whoever was next to my son was treated with great respect and friendship. Like I said, he knew no dangers from people. The FBI were satisfied with that."
--------------------------------
CNN Justice correspondent Kelli Arena contributed to this report.
I'm still waiting for the smoking gun. None of this so far amounts to a hill of beans, but it is "veddy interesting", like Joe said.
