right on John.... what is AQ to gain from such an act. It only appeals to the most hardcore of the fanatics in the Muslim world, and they probably need no more convinving to support AQ. If it indeed was an AQ act it is so sickening that I hate them more now. I am sure that most Muslims feel the same as me except for the sickos, but than again you have your fair share of sickos in any religion....
greenumbrella wrote:Bi-Polar,
Please do not engage the troublemakers, as the structure here will result in a perfectly good thread being locked to all instead of the person causing the trouble being locked out.
I have seen this sort of favouritism time and time again on able2know.
point taken......however I find the powers that be are generally fair here.......I have been taken to task a couple of times and quite frankly probably deserved it......
Merry Andrew wrote:fealola -- according to news reports, Berg was detained because of some irregularity in his passport (no visa stamp??). The US government maintains that he was detained by the Iraqi police, not by American authorities, that after he was released by the Iraqis, he was advised to leave Iraq by the Americans but disdained to do so. This is in contrast with what Berg's family says. They claimed it was Americans who detained him. Go figure.
Thanks, MA. I guess it's still a mystery IF and why he was detained by the Americans--passport irregularity?? I can't' wait to here the explaination if it's true. If it IS true then, why? --and why him (out of all hundreds or thousands of civilian foreigners in Iraq)?
infowarrior wrote:1.) how did Nick Berg get into Iraq not once, but twice (he was there in December too) without clearance from the US government who controls all access to Iraq?
2.) how did Nick Berg reach Baghdad? As deecups pointed out on another thread, there are no commercial flights into Iraq.
3.) why was Nick Berg 'held' by the US military for 2 weeks (according to his father Michael) and not allowed to make a phone call?
Since you trust his father's words so much maybe this explains how he got into Iraq: "After working for a Texas company, Nick Berg went into business for himself in West Chester, near Philadelphia.
Berg flew to Iraq on Royal Jordanian airlines, his father said. His father thought that would be the route he would take out of Iraq and even showed up at Kennedy Airport in New York in hopes of picking him up March 30."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/berg.victim.ap/index.html
As for whay he was held. Maybe this sheds some light on it?
"Berg's father said his son was Jewish and had a fringed religious cloth with him, but he did not think Berg wore the clothing in public. Still, "there's a better chance than not that they knew he was Jewish," Michael Berg said. "If there was any doubt that they were going to kill him that probably clinched it, I'm guessing.""
If you do a web search on entering Iraq you'll find that the rules in place prohibit Israelis from entering the country and others can be restricted if their passport mentions they are a member of the Jewish faith.(supposedly for their own safety).
"Entry restrictions: Holders of Israeli passports or other passports containing Israeli visas will be refused entry. In addition, Jewish passengers may be refused admission if their religion is mentioned in their passport"
http://www.travel-images.com/az-visa-iraq.html
Quote:4.) Nick Berg was unemployed and had no visual means of support, but he was somehow able to make the 10,000 mile journey from West Chester, PA, to Iraq?
He was not unemployed. He owned his own business. From the same link as above; "Berg, who was unmarried, owned a small business that worked with communication equipment like radio towers, and had traveled to Third World countries to help spread technology, his family said."
Quote:5.) Nick Berg's telecommunications skills served him at the 2000' GOP Convention too, where he worked for the RNC and became well known to RNC insiders.
And I used my telecommunications skills at the 1996 Democratic Party convention. What of it? Does that somehow make me a Democratic Party insider? After all, I was one of several thousand telecommunications people there....
fishin' wrote:If you do a web search on entering Iraq you'll find that the rules in place prohibit Israeli from entring the country and others can be restricted if tehir passport mentions they are a member of the Jewish faith.(supposedly for their own safety).
"Entry restrictions: Holders of Israeli passports or other passports containing Israeli visas will be refused entry. In addition, Jewish passengers may be refused admission if their religion is mentioned in their passport"
http://www.travel-images.com/az-visa-iraq.html
These days, it is obviously very difficult as a foreigner - US_American or others - to enter Iraq:
Quote: A person seeking entry to Iraq must appear before an authorized officer of the CPA at a port of entry, border control station, or at any place designated by the Senior Advisor of the Iraqi Ministry of Interior, in coordination with the Interim Minister of the Interior, for examination to determine whether the person may be granted entry to Iraq.
infowarrior wrote:2.) how did Nick Berg reach Baghdad? As deecups pointed out on another thread, there are no commercial flights into Iraq.
btw, deecups is simply wrong on the flight issue. She's right in that there are no commercial flights. That doesn't mean that that are no flights at all however. There are charted flights.
"
Royal Jordanian Resumes Iraq Flights
January 13, 2004
Jordan's national carrier said on Tuesday it had resumed passenger flights to Iraq, which were suspended in November after a missile hit a courier plane shortly after it took off from Baghdad Airport.
"Royal Jordanian has started operating chartered flights to Baghdad to facilitate the travel of humanitarian organizations and cater for certain business traffic," Royal Jordanian Airlines (RJ) Vice President Ghassan Ali said.
RJ ran the only regular UN-sanctioned service to Baghdad before the start of the US-led war on Iraq.
It resumed irregular passenger flights to Iraq after the end of the war through a subsidiary called Royal Wings, which later began offering a daily flight.
But the airline suspended the route in late November when a DHL courier plane made an emergency landing at Baghdad Airport after being hit by a surface-to-air missile.
Ali said RJ had made three trips to Baghdad since resuming flights last week. Two aircraft chartered by contractors involved in rebuilding Iraq flew there on Friday. Another plane, chartered by humanitarian groups, went on Sunday."
http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/01/1073986696.html
pistoff:
You might look at who has the background to carryout such a gruesome task as beheading: Ahmed Chabali.
You know Ahmed Chabali, don't you? Hand selected by the neocons and bank robber of some $300 million, Ahmed Chabali and his band of merrymen would be the ideal group to release Nick Berg to, and allow them to carry out the dirty deed.
Thus, the neocon right have their symbol and the war can continue unabated and no longer distracted by the Abu Ghraib scandal.
I'm not sure, if this was a regular or a charter flights, but
flight No. RJ 813, leaving Thu 16:50 in Baghdad , arrived Thu 17:32 at
Queen Alia International Airport in Amman.
(And since flight No RJ 814 starts tomorrow at 08:00, No RJ 812 at 13:00, it seems, there are at least two regular [charter] flights [on Fridays] daily :wink: )
I was interested in this Royal Wings reference so I went to their website and found the link to their charter destinations route map.
No flights are shown to any destination in Iraq. Ditto for Royal Jordanian Airlines too.
http://www.royalwings.com.jo/destinations.htm
Also, here is the published schedule. Again, no cities are served in Iraq.
http://www.royalwings.com.jo/schedule.htm
infowarrior wrote:I was interested in this Royal Wings reference so I went to their website and found the link to their charter destinations route map.
No flights are shown to any destination in Iraq. Ditto for Royal Jordanian Airlines too.
http://www.royalwings.com.jo/destinations.htm
Well, just now and this very second those flights I mentioned above are still there, run by Royal Jordanian Airlines.
Here's the link to Royal Jordanian Airlines. Pull down the destination bar on the right side.
No cities are served in Iraq.
http://www.rja.com.jo/home/home.asp
So, the official airport timetable is a fake?
BBB
I was watching Wolf Blitzer on CNN this morning. During an interview with the Republican chairman of the senate Iraq prison abuse hearing committee, the Chairman accused the Media of causing the beheading of hostage Berg. This really pissed me off and Blitzer didn't challenge him. The fact is that the terrorists said on the video tape that they took the hostages to trade them for prison inmates. The Media's release of the photos had nothing to do with the murder of Berg except as a political excuse for their actions.
I think this blame the Media will be the Republican strategy for diverting attention away from the real issues.
BBB
hmmm... Yet you can earn 75 Royal Jordanian Airlines Travel miles by booking a seat to Baghdad.
http://www.rja.com.jo/PC/Debited_Point.asp
I guess when you book ghost flights that don't exist anything is possible.
Berg told friends Iraqi police mistook him for Israeli spy
Posted on Wed, May. 12, 2004
Berg told friends Iraqi police mistook him for an Israeli spy
By Robert Moran
Knight Ridder Newspapers
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Nicholas Berg, the 26-year-old American whose videotaped decapitation was posted on the Internet, told friends here that Iraqi police arrested him because he had a Jewish-sounding last name and an Israeli stamp in his passport.
"They thought he was a spy," said Hugo Infante, a Chilean who works for the United Press International news service and lives at the al Fanar Hotel in central Baghdad, where Berg stayed until he checked out April 10 to return to the United States.
Berg apparently was taken hostage and then executed sometime before Saturday, when his headless body was discovered in a western suburb of Baghdad.
Why Berg was arrested, who held him, what happened to him after his release and what role his religion might have had in his death are key questions about the final days of the former Cornell University student with a penchant for travel to Third World countries.
Infante, 31, said Berg didn't seem particularly alarmed about his arrest and detention in the northern city of Mosul, where he apparently was held from March 25 to April 6. "He wasn't mad. It was adventure for him," Infante said, a view echoed by another friend, Andrew R. Duke, who said Berg shook off his detention.
"Basically his attitude it was all sort of fun, inconvenient," recalled Duke, 43, of Boulder, Colo.
The accounts of Berg's neighbors at the hotel where he lived as he pursued work in Iraq servicing communications towers provide the most detailed version to date of how the West Chester, Pa., native came to be in Iraqi police custody.
Infante said he last saw Berg on April 8 in the hotel's Internet cafe and that Berg told him he was leaving the country because business had declined. Berg talked about taking a plane from Baghdad to Jordan, Infante said.
Duke, who drank beer with Berg the night before he left, said Berg told him he'd made a lot of money and was thinking about going sailing in Turkey. He said he thought Berg was planning to leave the country by land.
"He was looking forward to going home," Duke said.
At the time Berg left the hotel, the road to Jordan was closed by U.S. forces and the road to Baghdad's airport frequently was attacked by insurgents.
State Department spokeswoman Kelly Shannon said a U.S. consular official in Iraq spoke with Berg on April 10 and offered to "assist him in departing Iraq by plane" for Jordan. She said Berg declined and said he planned to travel overland to Kuwait.
The FBI in Washington announced that it had opened an investigation into Berg's killing and acknowledged that its agents had interviewed Berg several times while he was in the custody of Iraqi police.
According to an FBI statement released in Washington, the U.S. military notified the bureau March 25 that an American was being held by Iraqi police. After several interviews with Berg and a visit to his parents' home in West Chester, the agents determined there was no reason for the Iraqis to detain him, the statement said.
It said the Coalition Provisional Authority, the U.S. entity that governs Iraq, helped coordinate Berg's release April 6. Dan Senor, a coalition spokesman in Iraq, said Berg was never in coalition custody.
Infante said Berg had referred to his jailers as members of the coalition, but it wasn't clear who ran the facility where he held. Iraqi police report to the CPA.
Berg's father, Michael, has accused U.S. authorities of contributing to his death by allowing him to be detained after his scheduled departure date March 30, the day before the grisly killings of four American private-security contractors in Fallujah touched off violence that claimed more American lives in the next month than any other period since U.S. forces invaded.
Infante said Berg told him he was arrested in Mosul, where he'd gone looking for work, after he had been drinking beer and was "messing around" on the street. Berg didn't elaborate, Infante said.
Infante said Berg told him he was kept in a cell by himself, but that other prisoners were in the building. Infante said Berg thought most of those prisoners were Iranians and other non-Iraqis who'd been detained for crossing illegally into Iraq.
Infante and Duke said Berg told them that Iraqi police suspected he was an Israeli spy because of the stamp in his passport.
Iraqi police in Mosul couldn't be reached for comment Wednesday, and coalition authorities offered no information on the reason for Berg's detention.
Senor said the FBI visited Berg three times while he was being held to determine what he was doing in Iraq. He also was being monitored by U.S. military police to make sure he was being fed and treated well, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said.
----------------------------------
(Moran reports for The Philadelphia Inquirer.)
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:The fact is that the terrorists said on the video tape that they took the hostages to trade them for prison inmates. The Media's release of the photos had nothing to do with the murder of Berg except as a political excuse for their actions.
I thought it was in retalition for the photos. But I found this, in case anyone was curious about it. I don't know whether this proves the case either way though. They mention redeeming the dignity of detainees at Abu Ghraib, but not anything specific about the photos.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4080833,00.html
Quote:In the video of Berg, the executioners said they had tried to trade him for prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
``For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused,'' one of the men read from a statement.
``So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way.''
Diplomat's E-Mails Show Berg in Custody
Article published May 13, 2004
Diplomat's E-Mails Show Berg in Custody
By JASON STRAZIUSO
Associated Press Writer
A U.S. diplomatic official in Iraq told the family of slain American Nicholas Berg that he was being detained by the U.S. military when they lost contact with him for several days in early April, according to e-mails provided by the family Thursday.
U.S. government officials have said Berg, who was found dead last weekend in Baghdad, was detained by Iraqi police and was never in the custody of American forces.
He is believed to have been kidnapped within days of his release by either Iraqi police or coalition forces, and later beheaded by militants who videotaped the slaying.
To back its claims that Berg was in U.S. custody, the family showed The Associated Press an April 1 e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq.
"I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly," the e-mail said.
In two e-mails later that day, Payne wrote that she was still trying to find a local contact for the family.
Berg's brother, David Berg, called on the government to come clean about its contacts with the slain American before he died. The family has blamed the government for keeping him in custody for too long while anti-American violence escalated in Iraq.
