14
   

Bergdahl Prisoner Swap:Obama Obeys ONLY the Laws He Wants To.

 
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jun, 2014 09:09 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
It is sad fact, but it's the times we live in.


It is a manufactured environment that Democrats(and many other control minded organizations with lots of bucks) created with the medias support.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 07:43 am
Concerning the six deaths being blamed on the search for Bergdahl, turns out the search had been called off before those unfortunate casualties occurred.

U.S. deaths in Afghanistan may have only tenuous link to Bergdahl

With the war winding down, it is conceivable that the Taliban could have made threats against Bergdahl life if a deal wasn't finally reached, which could account for the terms "urgent" and "health" being made when justifying the prisoner swap. For both sides, the timing was getting more urgent as the US has a policy of not leaving a man behind, they would not want to leave a prisoner behind when they pull out. Most of the Taliban will probably be released, I mean we can't just keep open Gitmo forever without any sort of trial or anything for the prisoners long after the war is over and leave, can we?
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 08:10 am
@revelette2,
I'll believe the men who were there and not some random MSN report.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 08:11 am
From the same site as the last is another interesting article, it sort lends weight to the idea that Bergdahl walked off and was trying to help the Afghans in another way when he got captured. Neverthless, we don't leave our military men and women behind and he deserved to released from his captivity, what happens from there, I don't know. Since it turns out that the deaths were not connected to the search of Bergdahl, I feel sorry for him as he was probably even more disillusioned after being tortured by the Taliban and all.

From prayers to fury: The journey of Bowe Bergdahl
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 08:15 am
@woiyo,
The report is pretty detailed and quotes from various official people.

Quote:
It was in mid-August that the battalion, still in Paktika province, started taking casualties. On Aug. 18, a roadside bomb killed Staff Sergeant Clayton Bowen, 29, and Private First Class Morris Walker, 23.

Bowen's mother, Reesa Doebbler, says she was told by her son's former comrades that he was on a mission to provide election security, an account confirmed by other sources, including a U.S. military official. Reuters was unable to contact Walker's family.

Staff Sergeant Michael Murphrey, 25, died on Sept. 6 while setting up a security camp after a day spent distributing humanitarian aid, said Jack Kessna, a former member of Bergdahl's Blackfoot Company who has worked with other former soldiers to determine the cause of the deaths. Kessna said Murphrey's death could not be linked directly to the search.

Murphrey's sister, Krisa, said she was never given official information about his mission after his death and had to rely on accounts by her brother's comrades.

"Some say that he was not on a rescue mission, that he was on a humanitarian mission. And then some say that, sure it wasn’t a rescue mission, per se, but Bergdahl was always the secondary mission," she told Reuters.

Staff Sergeant Kurt Curtiss, 27, was shot on Aug. 26 while his unit was supporting Afghan security forces during an enemy attack. Reuters was not able to contact Curtiss' family.

On Sept. 4, Second Lieutenant Darryn Andrews, 34, died when enemy forces attacked his vehicle with a roadside bomb and a rocket-propelled grenade. Private First Class Matthew Martinek, 20, died a week later from wounds sustained in the same attack. The parents of both Andrews and Martinek told Reuters last week they believe their sons died searching for Bergdahl, saying they were told this by other soldiers in the platoon.

Former Private First Class Jose Baggett, who normally sat next to Andrews on every mission as driver and radio telephone operator, had been injured when a roadside bomb hit his truck on a previous mission. Martinek took his place.

"I even remember helping him pack his gear for the mission," Baggett said. "Worst day of my life to date."

Baggett says he doesn't think the death of the two soldiers, or anybody else, can be directly linked to the search. Even if Bergdahl had not walked off, the battalion still could have taken casualties during its 12-month tour of Afghanistan, he says.

A U.S. military official said that, like the other casualties, the two men were not engaged in a search for Bergdahl but were on a logistics mission.

Vierkant believes otherwise.

"It was what every mission was, every day: find Bergdahl," he said.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 10:23 am
@woiyo,
Quote:
I'll believe the men who were there and not some random MSN report.

http://www.alien-earth.org/images/smileys/headbang.gif
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 10:56 am
@coldjoint,
Vierkant believes otherwise.

"It was what every mission was, every day: find Bergdahl," he said.

Razz
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 11:44 am
@woiyo,
Quote:
In mid-July, military officials called off the dedicated ground search and gave soldiers other primary missions after concluding that Bergdahl had been taken to Pakistan, according to a U.S. military official speaking on condition of anonymity. The official said some Bergdahl-related surveillance continued for about another month, and soldiers were also told to keep an eye out and to ask about Bergdahl while carrying out primary missions.


source
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 12:04 pm
The man was a captive for five years. It is hard to believe that the question of his guilt has not been nailed down.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 06:29 pm
@revelette2,
The US deaths in Afghanistan do not, it is true, appear to have been suffered during missions solely dedicated to searching for Bergdahl. However the claims that every mission, after his disappearance, had as a secondary goal locating him, should not be blithely dismissed. We certainly have no way now of knowing whether this secondary goal in any way altered the plans of the main mission and in some way led to any of these death, and so further investigation is necessary. It's probably a question that will never be answered with certainty, but if it is, it will only serve to increase the seriousness of Bergdahl's desertion, it can't exonerate him.

DOD Secretary Hagel announced:

Quote:
"I do not know of a specific circumstance or details of US soldiers dying as a result of efforts to find and rescue Bergdahl."


This is not the same as "there are no specific circumstances or details..." or even something along the lines of "Based on the evidence we know have, no US soldier died as a result of..."

I certainly don't know that Hagel deliberately chose to phrase this statement in a way that avoided his acknowledging something that was not favorable to the White House spin on Bergdahl, and I'm not even suggesting that he did, but I do know that politicians and official choose their words very carefully when making statements like this and often only with a lot of advice. This doesn't mean Hagel was playing fast and loose with the truth, but it's enough for me not to take his statement as a definitive answer to the question.

Some have made a leap too far to directly link these deaths to Bergdahl's desertion, and I don't agree with them or their doing so, but, again, that they have doesn't diminish the seriousness of other issues surrounding this affair.

It's certainly conceivable that the Taliban would have used threats against Bergdahl's life as leverage in the negotiations. What it not credible is that they would have linked these threats to a demand that the negotiations remain secret. What did the Taliban have to gain from secrecy? It doesn't make any sense that with the repatriation of five their leaders so close, that they would have killed Bergdahl for any reason other than a complete breakdown of negotiations.

Keep in mind threats against Bergdahl's life was not initially given as the primary reason for failure to notify congress, and when they were offered as an explanation, they were tied to secrecy. They had to be, to justify non-disclosure by the White House.

And if you believe and accept that all of the Taliban will have to be released at the end of hostilities, then why wouldn't the Taliban come to this conclusion as well. After all, they have much better access to what we are thinking and believe as a society than the other way around. This is another reason to believe that they weren't seriously considering killing Bergdahl as long as negotiations were continuing.

Anything, of course, is possible but we should consider what makes the most sense
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2014 11:50 pm
Michael Gerson: The White House’s Bergdahl mess

Quote:
It would be difficult, even if intended and planned, to cram more hubris, incompetence and mendacity into a humane and sympathetic act.

The lopsided trade for Bowe Bergdahl was Israeli in inspiration — a high tolerance for future military risk in order to honor a national commitment. Because that tolerance is not infinite — no soldier is worth a nuclear weapon — it is always a judgment call. My tendency is to err on the side of freeing our people in uniform, even the lost, confused and negligent ones.

But the swap of five senior Taliban figures (two of them wanted for war crimes) for a private who wandered from his post was initially controversial, even within the Obama administration. It had been questioned by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and then-CIA Director Leon Panetta. The skeptical view not so much lost as left.

The president made the final call, then proceeded to a discrediting error. President Obama chose to tell a simple moral story: the return of a hero. But the real Bergdahl story is enormously complex. There was, it seems, delusional naivete, a betrayal of an oath, the sacrifice by comrades and the release of dangerous enemies. And then came the White House balloon drop. It was like tacking a happy ending on to Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness.” This communications strategy also placed Bergdahl’s parents at the center of the story — beside Obama in the Rose Garden — exposing them to scrutiny and hostility.

In a matter of days, the administration managed to offend a tremendous variety of people, starting with members of Congress. In pursuing the Bergdahl deal without congressional consultation, Obama ignored the law — a grasping and probably unconstitutional law. Americans should not be shocked by the existence of such disagreements. At the disputed boundaries between the branches, sharp elbows are often thrown.

But it is generally not a good idea to ignore the law and then insult the lawmakers. The Democratic chair of the Senate intelligence committee was not called until two days after the photo op. The official excuses for refusing consultation have been flimsy and shifting. More important, the possible swap had been previously presented to members of Congress as one part of a broader political settlement with the Taliban. When the trade suddenly happened, it only determined the fate of a single man. Many in Congress, both Republican and Democrat, feel ignored and misled. And they are likely to be far more skeptical about future prisoner releases from Guantanamo, even if consulted.

The White House also needlessly offended members of the military. When national security adviser Susan Rice claimed that Bergdahl had served with “honor and distinction,” members of his unit felt compelled to speak out, because the word “honor” actually means something to them. So did others who joined a dangerous manhunt in a warzone. The rest of us have no reason to prejudge the facts in this case, but those who served with Bergdahl have every right to present their version of events.

The Bergdahl case reveals a disturbing gap between the White House and military culture. After Bergdahl’s fellow soldiers corrected the administration’s false narrative, anonymous White House aides accused them of engaging in “Swift-boating.” Consider that a moment. While the White House (still) claims that Bergdahl served with “honor,” aides now impugn the motives of those who served beside him — and who stayed at their posts. Particularly in a time of war, why are these attacks not a firing offense?

If the White House really believes that questions raised about the swap are uniformly partisan and political — even from the military — it has adopted the thinking of the bunker

It is also the type of thinking common while retreating. “This is what happens at the end of wars,” Obama explains. It is the tidying up on the way to the exits. The Afghan war, it appears, is already over in the president’s mind, leaving more than 30,000 U.S troops still in Afghanistan without much inspiration or strategic purpose. As well as leaving Afghan allies to wonder about the strength of the United States’ commitment to a non-Taliban future. Rather than an exit strategy, we have what Richard Haass of the Council on Foreign Relations calls an “exit without a strategy.”

The Israeli approach to prisoner swaps is accompanied by an Israeli attitude toward enemies: Even if you are released, we will fight you as long as you fight us. The approach becomes more questionable without the attitude.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/michael-gerson-the-white-houses-bergdahl-mess/2014/06/09/6045cb46-f009-11e3-914c-1fbd0614e2d4_story.html?hpid=z2

The go to cover for Team Obama incompetence has been " It is all the R's fault!" which has tended to result in cheering from their feeble minded supporters as well as to be registered with conservatives as more proof that Obama has absolutely no interest in working with them to fix america. That does not work here. When you are a D president and you get to the point that Diane Feinstein is ******* you nearly every day in the media because you pissed her off then you should know that you are in jimmy Carter level of incompetence territory.

EDIT: it is stunning to consider the political skill that Obama showed us in 07 and 08 and compare that with how today he acts like he has not the first damn clue how this game is played. I cant think of another example of this in history. All he can do now is alternately pout and blast everyone from the podium, and issue presidential decrees. Naturally his approval ratings are dropping like a stone as everyone gives up on him.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 12:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
We are well rid of the five Afghans, who were captured in 2002. They are not terrorists as the Reps like to say. They are militants who were running the country when we invaded it. I don't see where they pose any special danger to the USA.

The last time I looked, each prisoner at Gitmo was costing the USA $800,000 per year. We now should now liquidate the place. The few prisoners that we allegedly must keep should be transferred to a federal prison, which is a fate worse than death.

After five years, I have to assume that the military knows full well whether Bergdahl was a deserter. But it is not saying that he is one. Of course, this doesn't stop the Reps from making all kinds of condemnations.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 12:44 pm
@Advocate,
While you seem to be ignoring the importance of interrogating him in the process of determining guilt, if your difficulty with the fact that Bergdahl's guilt or innocence has not yet been "nailed down" implies disbelief or even skepticism, then you need to ask yourself the following questions.

What impact does the answer have on this affair?

How would the White House benefit if he did not desert or collaborate? And if it has been so determined, why would they not release that finding right now?

How would the White House be harmed if he did desert or did collaborate? (No need to ask yourself why they wouldn't release the finding now, unless you can't imagine any way in which it would hurt their position)

The only reason that I can imagine; that wouldn't involve public perception of the White House and the deal would involve the revelation of methods and sources, and this would be better held in the government's back pocket until such time as it becomes necessary to announce the decision not to prosecute Bergdahl.

Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 01:08 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
It seems that the Reps are only interested in tarring Obama and the administration.

Again, it is good to get Bergdahl released, as well as getting rid of the five Afghans. Therefore, Obama has made the right decisions here.

We need to get out of Afghan. ASAP. It was a huge mistake to stay there for 12 years. Also, it was criminal how Bush lied us into invading Iraq. Seeing Bush show up at VA hospitals makes me want to barf. The man is a war criminal.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 01:12 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Bush lied us into invading Iraq.


Along with the bi-partisan Congress supporting him?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 01:16 pm
@Advocate,
It was a horrible trade and these guys are going to be back in Afghanistan before the end of the summer. Qutar has already said they are free to move around the country as they please and they will not be watching them. This goes against what Obama said was going to happen.

They are making up the meaning of the term "served with Honor". Bergdahl has done no such thing. He walked away from his battle buddies and left them. Does this sound like honor to you? Remember every single one of these guys is an eye witness and have given sworn statements. As I have said and others have said, we will take the word of the guys who were there over a govt report any day.

I still find it funny that Bush hasn't been in office for 6 years and you can still bring it around to Bush. WOW!
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 01:26 pm
http://youngcons.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Fullscreen-capture-6102014-105401-AM.bmp.jpg
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 02:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I am pretty sure that now that Bergdahl is released from prison, they will be asking him questions concerning the circumstances of his capture, but they haven't anything yet to release other than what has already been released to the press. So far, he has not been charged with desertion, that may or may not change.

As far as the Five detainees goes, as you say, I have no problem with it. I think they should all be released as time served or held for trial and sentence determined then, after all, most have been there for 12 years. Surely we aren't going to keep them in there until the end of time, whenever that is. I mean think about it, when won't we be able to say that they could be a threat if released?
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 02:20 pm
@revelette2,
Why are you so insistent on ignoring the reports of his fellow soldiers who were there? These are eye witnesses to his desertion. They know the full story and the govt to this point has given us a story that doesn't match up. Wearing the uniform doesn't automatically entitle you to being honorable. It is a first step but it isn't automatic.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2014 02:26 pm
@Baldimo,
At least one of them has been released from the service on less than honorable discharge. In any case, in the report which was given, he was not charged with desertion. I will wait until the final investigation and report comes out before coming to any conclusions.

He did walk away from his post, but as of yet, he hasn't been officially charged with desertion.
 

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