Just Curious. What Are You?

@Finn dAbuzz,

And a disturbed one at that.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote;

Quote:

A new study by liberal institutions.

Are there conservative institutions of education? Can you name some, Finn?

Finn dAbuzz wrote;

Quote:

These are studies that validated pre-existing beliefs.

"Validated" being the keyword. Care to look it up?

Finn dAbuzz wrote;

Quote:

What was "scientific" about their analysis?

The methodology recognised and accepted by the usual peer-review process of your American education system, Finn. Do you choose to deny the system that educated you, actually works?

Finn dAbuzz wrote;

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What data proves the existence of an oligarchy? Surveys? Don't make me laugh.

Didn't bother to peruse the document, hmmm? Cognitive dissonance rears it's timid beak?

Finn dAbuzz wrote;

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I still would be interested in the assessments of these sources as they relate to other nations. Your response is ridiculous.

To which other nations? The ones that have been "liberated" by your nation of oligarchs? You know, let's all spread some democracy, like the kind we pretend to have. The study came to a conclusion that has been peer-reviewed, and agreed upon. Is that system of balances and checks not good enough for Finn?

Finn dAbuzz wrote;

Quote:

You chose to invalidate your personal importance through your paranoid perception of The Powers That Be. Fine, you can't and don't make a difference, then why are you wasting you time. Ending your spleen in this forum?

My perception is neither "paranoid" nor invalidated. And I believe that Direct Democracy, which is currently within the grasp of our current abilities, and technology, would be quite the electoral possibility, if not for the dumbed-down populace believing what the oligarch-controlled media feeds to them. And I believe the term is "venting your spleen", Finn.

Finn dAbuzz wrote;

Quote:

As to whether or not I can make assumptions about you by what you write, of course I can. Another ridiculous argument.

Assumptions are reliably wrong, but again, continue to stick to your perceptions. They seem to be all you've got, Finn. That, and your cognitive dissonance.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

But I do despise American conservatism...

WHAT is the specific problem in your emotions ?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

But I do despise American conservatism...

WHAT is the specific problem in your emotions ?

Oh, I'm sorry...I thought I was clear about that, David.

I DESPISE American conservatism.

I will acknowledge though that I do not consider it a problem. I consider it sanity and good judgment.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

What is your reason for that ?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

What is your reason for that ?

Because I consider American conservatism to be the slimiest bit of political sludge ever to infect planet Earth.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

That 's odd.
U appear to be concealing your motives. Y ???

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

That 's odd.
U appear to be concealing your motives. Y ???

What is even odder is that you think I have "motives" for an emotional response to American conservatism...which I consider to be the pond scum of political philosophy on planet Earth.

Mind you, I even agree with some of the areas championed by conservatives (acknowledge that Finn disputes that)...but on the whole, American conservatism has gone from a decent, much needed loyal opposition...to a thing that makes me cringe to think about. Honestly, David, my flesh creeps when American conservatism is mentioned in my presence.

And...almost every one of my closest friends describes him/herself as a conservative...as do probably the majority of my immediate family. I love each of them. Each of them knows it is probably best not to discuss politics with me.

We can keep at this for as long as you want, David...but in the end, you will see that I have pretty much described my feelings about American conservatism...and why I feel that way.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

And David, you asked about the oligarchy, so what's your response to the reply?

Quote:

After sifting through nearly 1,800 US policies enacted in that period and comparing them to the expressed preferences of average Americans (50th percentile of income), affluent Americans (90th percentile) and large special interests groups, researchers concluded that the United States is dominated by its economic elite.

The peer-reviewed study, which will be taught at these universities in September, says: "The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence."

Article here

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

That 's odd.
U appear to be concealing your motives. Y ???

Frank Apisa wrote:

What is even odder is that you think I have "motives"
for an emotional response to American conservatism...which I consider
to be the pond scum of political philosophy on planet Earth.

U r very redundant on that point
(the intensity of your emotions) with no effort to specify what the problem was
(almost adopting Foofie's its none of your business vu point).

On other matters, u have usually been more forthcoming.
In contrast, if u asked me qua my feeling the same way about gun control,
I cud and I wud be very specific in reply.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Mind you, I even agree with some of the areas championed by conservatives
(acknowledge that Finn disputes that)...but on the whole,
American conservatism has gone from a decent, much needed loyal
opposition...to a thing that makes me cringe to think about.

When n under what circumstances did that happen ?
How did u feel about Barry Goldwater in 1964 ?
Do u despise the US Constitution ?

1 Reply

@Builder,

Builder wrote:

And David, you asked about the oligarchy, so what's your response to the reply?

Quote:
After sifting through nearly 1,800 US policies enacted in that period
and comparing them to the expressed preferences of average
Americans (50th percentile of income), affluent Americans (90th percentile)
and large special interests groups, researchers [????] concluded
that the United States is dominated by its economic elite.

The peer-reviewed study, which will be taught at these universities
in September, says: "The central point that emerges from our research
is that economic elites and organised groups representing business
interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy,
while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence."

To begin with: your source trying to slip by that "researchers"
without specific id. thereof, raises doubts qua dispassionate
objectivity n sincerity of exploration in good faith.

Of course, I expect the lobbying efforts of business and of labor unions
to have effect, as thay shud. That is the democratic process.

I am very pleased with the success of my own lobbying efforts.

I do not accept the tone of paranoia inherent in your quoted material.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

That 's odd.
U appear to be concealing your motives. Y ???

Frank Apisa wrote:
What is even odder is that you think I have "motives"
for an emotional response to American conservatism...which I consider
to be the pond scum of political philosophy on planet Earth.
U r very redundant on that point
(the intensity of your emotions) with no effort to specify what the problem was
(almost adopting Foofie's its none of your business vu point).

On other matters, u have usually been more forthcoming.
In contrast, if u asked me qua my feeling the same way about gun control,
I cud and I wud be very specific in reply.

Good for you.

I love classical music, especially opera...and I thoroughly enjoy rap music. I know people who have a visceral dislike of one or the other. If you were to ask them dozens of times why they dislike the one they dislike...they would answer about the way I did to your question.

And my response to "why do you like those kinds of music"...would not be much more specific.

Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Mind you, I even agree with some of the areas championed by conservatives
(acknowledge that Finn disputes that)...but on the whole,
American conservatism has gone from a decent, much needed loyal
opposition...to a thing that makes me cringe to think about.
When n under what circumstances did that happen ?
How did u feel about Barry Goldwater in 1964 ?

Barry Goldwater, even back then, had a quality that I admire in anyone displaying it...namely, that he spoke his mind plainly.

However, I think he would have made a horrible president...and I was delighted when he was chosen to run, because I saw a win for the other side as almost a certainty as a result.

It is sorta like I feel right now. I am hoping that Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz team up as the Republican slate for the next presidential election. I say...let's test the mood of the country with a clear choice. Have the Republicans choose the most conservative team they can find...and have the Democrats choose flaming liberals, like Hillary Clinton, for instance. We'll see how it goes.

Quote:

Do u despise the US Constitution ?

No I do not. But that reminds me of something that may edge closer to the specificity you have asked for.

I do despise the American conservative mindset that holds anyone who is not on the conservative side of issues...as indicative of holding the US Constitution in contempt. Sorta like Sarah Palin considering people who hold American conservative ideals as "real Americans"...and people who don't as something less.

Those are two rather specific things about American conservatism that I loathe.

Are we getting closer to what you were looking for, David?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

In your last post, u answered my question fully.

Lee H. Oswald assassinated Barry Goldwater 's presidential career.

If the Democrats had run the twin brother to Hitler, he 'd still have won, anyway.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

In your last post, u answered my question fully.

Lee H. Oswald assassinated Barry Goldwater 's presidential career.

If the Democrats had run the twin brother to Hitler, he 'd still have won, anyway.

Well...there is a way to test what you seem to be suggesting.

Let's work toward getting the two most extreme conservative Republicans available to head the Republican ticket...and the two most extreme liberal Democrats to head the Democrat ticket...

...and see what the people decide.

In any case, if you think Goldwater would have been a shoo-in to beat Kennedy (had he lived) in 1964...I think you are way off base. In my opinion, Goldwater was going to lose in a landslide whether the Democrat slate was headed by Kennedy or Johnson. And, it should come as no surprise that I think the extreme liberal would win over the extreme conservative today. Either would be bad for the country...but I say the liberals would win.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

what di you think I am?

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I took a long holiday from A2K and the reasons for it are starting to come back to me.

Anyway, come the revolution, commissar Frank will be calling the shots and Setanta will be his theologian. It will be a better world, no doubt.

I would guess your sense of humor was very valuable on board ship.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Contempt is not automatically hostility, either.

Au contraire, Monsieur Setanta.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

In your last post, u answered my question fully.

Lee H. Oswald assassinated Barry Goldwater 's presidential career.

If the Democrats had run the twin brother to Hitler, he 'd still have won, anyway.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Well...there is a way to test what you seem to be suggesting.

Let's work toward getting the two most extreme conservative Republicans available to head the Republican ticket

I ALWAYS do that.

Frank Apisa wrote:

...and the two most extreme liberal Democrats to head the Democrat ticket...

The Demos dont let me decide that.

Frank Apisa wrote:

...and see what the people decide.

In any case, if you think Goldwater would have been a shoo-in to beat Kennedy (had he lived) in 1964...I think you are way off base.

Kennedy was badly, humiliatingly, behind in the polls
as of the day b4 the assassination. That 's Y he was campaigning so frantically.
In my memory, I see a national map wherein the polling of US News & World Report
gave Goldwater almost the whole country. That flipped instantly on the day of the assassination; a huge wave of remorse.
There was much denunciation in the media of "the haters"; (that meant ME.
My loathing of the Kennedys for the nightmare their administration put me thru every nite
was very much akin to your own. U expressed it well.)

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

In your last post, u answered my question fully.

Lee H. Oswald assassinated Barry Goldwater 's presidential career.

If the Democrats had run the twin brother to Hitler, he 'd still have won, anyway.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Well...there is a way to test what you seem to be suggesting.

Let's work toward getting the two most extreme conservative Republicans available to head the Republican ticket
I ALWAYS do that.

Frank Apisa wrote:
...and the two most extreme liberal Democrats to head the Democrat ticket...
The Demos dont let me decide that.

Frank Apisa wrote:

...and see what the people decide.

In any case, if you think Goldwater would have been a shoo-in to beat Kennedy (had he lived) in 1964...I think you are way off base.
Kennedy was badly, humiliatingly, behind in the polls
as of the day b4 the assassination. That 's Y he was campaigning so frantically.
In my memory, I see a national map wherein the polling of US News & World Report
gave Goldwater almost the whole country. That flipped instantly on the day of the assassination; a huge wave of remorse.
There was much denunciation in the media of "the haters"; (that meant ME.
My loathing of the Kennedys for the nightmare their administration put me thru every nite
was very much akin to your own. U expressed it well.)

As did you, David.

I am not a Democrat (registered Independent)...so they will have to choose their own candidates. I am hoping the head of the ticket will be Hillary Clinton...who sets off fireworks in many conservative heads.

And I am hoping the Republicans will choose Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan...or better, both for their ticket.

If that happens, we will see what we will see.

Even if that doesn't happen...we will see what we will see.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

I think you lean to the left. You're certainly not, like others, a cartoon liberal.

I'm interested in what you consider yourself.

Set, not surprisingly, took umbrage at my suggestion that how one identifies oneself can predict how one might feel about certain issues. Clearly the accuracy of any such predictions will not be 100%, but it seems sensible to me that if you self-identify by a general set of principles, that it your response to a certain issue can be predicted. For instance, I self-identify as a libertarian conservative. Based on this you can probably fairly accurate predict how I will respond to certain issues (assuming of course we have a generally common understanding of what libertarian conservative means).

I find it difficult to imagine that someone would find it impossible to place the self somewhere in the matrix of political thought, but if they say so, I'm not going to call them a liar. I asked people to offer examples of positions they held that were, politically, diametrically opposed to see if I am wrong in my assumption. Frank was nice enough to comply and offered his acceptance that personal gun ownership was legion, and here to stay, as an example of a conservative position he held. It didn't rattle my assumption.

He also offered as a conservative position, his support for the death penalty. This is something that a great many people would agree is a conservative position, but I don't see how it is predicated upon conservative principles.

Again, it didn't shake my assumption.

Clearly, for some, there is a feeling that in my arrogance I have decided to pass judgment on whether or not someone's self-identification is valid, to some extent they may be right. I am judging whether or not their professed conservative positions are, by my standards, actually conservative. I don't see this as arrogant, simply part of the process I put in place to satisfy my curiosity.

1 Reply

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