U.S. General Suspended Over Iraqi Prisoner Abuse

McTag's quote, "That's right, Tony, you can't beat a thief with rifle butts and piss on him, but it's okay to bomb and shoot civilians in an illegal "war", maiming and killing thousands. Is that what you mean?" I would only add that those thousands were innocent women and children.

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revel wrote:

What I don't understand is why MGM and tarantulaes assume because we are discussing the event, we are gleeful and smug about people being abused just so we can rub it in the people who are for the occupation faces. Personally I am offended by the implied accusation.

Be as offended as you wish. But the fact remains that whenever a certain group gets gleeful about an event that shows the current administration in a bad light, they start throwing up multiple topics about the same subject. That has happened here, on the first two pages:

U.S. General Suspended Over Iraqi Prisoner Abuse

Despite Political Pressure, the Mirror Defends Torture Pics

The Electrodes' Switch is in Washington

The impact of the Iraqi prison pictures

And it's not only the thread proliferation that provides the merriment, it's all the snotty side comments:

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"Fear" is the most powerful weapon Bush has to offer and very little else.

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Having the power to invade other countries also brings bad things out in people.

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Since our armed forces are simply a reflection of their political leaders and since these are Bush, Rumsfeld, Chaney, Rice, Powell, and Blair, surely such behavior is only a natural consequence of allowing such dangerous creatures into positions of power?

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Thank George! We couldn't have done it without you.

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Thank goodness the media have no photos of what has been going on for years at Camp X-ray.

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Jeez, what a bunch of morons the U.S. military is in Iraq.

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Is anyone on able2know able to follow McGentrix's train of thought?

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The US Imperialistic mis-adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan have failed, miserably!!!!
Billion have been made by the War Profiteers while the American Middle Class, Working Poor and Poor will pay for the fiascos!
The NeoFascists should be concerned about a Civil War...in the USA should the criminal cabal of Bushco be selected again!!!!

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perhaps it's because the current leadership is sooooo passionate about presenting themselves as compassionate liberators operating from direct suggestion from no less a figure than Jesus Christ

And these (to me) were mild compared to some of the hate that's spewed forth in other threads. There's really no reason for it, either. We can discuss current events like mature individuals without insulting each other or making hateful comments. Can't we?

I read an article by someone in the UK who said the prisoner pictures were taken in front of a type of military vehicle that hasn't been deployed to Iraq because it's too hard to get fuel for it there. So on one side of the argument they are saying the pictures were taken somewhere else, while on the other side of the argument they swear the pictures came from Iraq.

The pictures may not be shown in the newspaper much, but they are on the TV news during each and every broadcast. It's probably for the same reason we had to watch the cops subduing Rodney King over and over. We caught the "good guys" doing something bad. There's no sense showing Iraqi criminals desecrating corpses or executing an Italian civilian, because that's what we expect from them. But when some of the knights in shining armor are shown to be a bit tarnished, people swarm all over the story dripping saliva everywhere. And grinning from ear to ear.

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Tar, Your problem is you haven't really heard what we're saying, and only see it as "gloating." Your ability to stretch it to "grinning from ear to ear" is about as misguided as Bush is in his indeavor to bring peace to Iraq and the whole middle east. People like you will never see the truth. The only time I'll be grinning from ear to ear is when Bush and his criminals are sent back to Texas.

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An apology
GW Bush owes Iraqis a sincere apology. The statement he made concerning the torture of Iraqi prisoners was pathetic and self serving. Will he sincerely apologize?

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pistoff, We already know the answer to your question. Bush will never apolgize or admit to mistakes. It's not registered in his brain to be humble. We all know how he's taken action on "compassionate conservatism."

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Tarantulas as a rock musician I have met many groupies. You and McGentirx are my first police and military groupies.

If you live long enough you see everything I guess.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Tarantulas as a rock musician I have met many groupies.

Hence the "hoping to die in bed," comment. Very Happy

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hobitbob wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Tarantulas as a rock musician I have met many groupies.

Hence the "hoping to die in bed," comment.

Coming and going at the same time hopefully........

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I keep looking for some of those police groupies but they never show up when I'm in uniform. I doubt my wife would appreciate them fully anyway. Wink

I'm not really a groupie for anyone. I don't fawn over celebrities or politicians, military, firefighters, or police. I'm as dismayed as anyone here about the actions that occurred in that prison. But I don't blame their actions on religious fundamentalists, little green men, or the President of the United States. I try to "keep it real" here.

Here's another example. Cicerone tries to post a rational thought, and ends up growling something about the President between clenched teeth.

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Your ability to stretch it to "grinning from ear to ear" is about as misguided as Bush is in his indeavor to bring peace to Iraq and the whole middle east.

It's hatred, pure and simple. It's been pointed out before, in different threads, and I don't suppose it will do any good to point it out in this one, but somehow I can't help but try.

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Tarantulas wrote:

I keep looking for some of those police groupies but they never show up when I'm in uniform. I doubt my wife would appreciate them fully anyway.

But you aren't really a policeman, either from what I understand. You are a sort of reserve officer. What do you actually do? Bring them hot cocoa?

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hi pistoff- I couldn't agree more. Bush owes the Iraqi people a big apology. Oddly enough, I think it more likely we'll see Bush apologize to Iraq than Bush apologize to the American people for failing to stop 9/11.

After all, Bush cares a hell of a lot more about Iiraq than the USA.

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hobitbob wrote:

Tarantulas wrote:
I keep looking for some of those police groupies but they never show up when I'm in uniform. I doubt my wife would appreciate them fully anyway.

But you aren't really a policeman, either from what I understand. You are a sort of reserve officer. What do you actually do? Bring them hot cocoa?

Nope, I'm an extra set of eyes and ears for them, and handcuffs, gun, and pepper spray. I can direct traffic or transport prisoners or look through bags at a security checkpoint and free up a sworn Deputy Sheriff to do the more important law enforcement work. And in almost every respect, my uniform is identical to his.

Hot cocoa! Razz

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Full text of Iraq prisoner torture report
Seynour Hersh, the journalist who broke the story of the prisoner torture, also reported that the Pentagon tried to block the story for months; tried to confiscate all of the hundreds of photos to prevent their disclosure. It wasn't until the photos were published that the Pentagon finally admitted the problem. ---BBB

U.S. Army report on Iraqi prisoner abuse.

Complete text of Article 15-6 Investigation of the 800th Military Police Brigade by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. TagubaUpdated: 7:09 p.m. ET May 04, 2004The following is the text of the Taguba report with only the names of the witnesses removed for the sake of privacy.

The report was prepared by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba on alleged abuse of prisoners by members of the 800th Military Police Brigade at the Abu Ghraib Prison in Baghdad.

It was ordered by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of Joint Task Force-7, the senior U.S. military official in Iraq, following persistent allegations of human rights abuses at the prison.

The official name of the report is: ARTICLE 15-6 INVESTIGATION OF THE 800th MILITARY POLICE BRIGADE

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001/

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tarantulas

I am still offended. Our comments about Bushco and about some posters here have no bearing on whether we are gleeful Iraqi prisoners were humiliated and abused just so we can score some points in a political forum. I am not that petty and I am sure no one else is either.

The reason that no one goes on about the good things that happened in Iraq is because (to me at least) it doesn't take away the fact that we had no business invading Iraq in the first place. I would think the same as I do now if everything over there was going along hunky dory and we found huge stockpiles of WMD under every truck and inside every old building. However, the fact that everything is not going along all hunky dory and there have not been any stockpiles of WMD found at all just reenforces my original objection and I do like pointing it out as proof but I am not glad that it is going from bad to worse over there. If everything was going along fine over there, it would just mean that we would have harder time defending our objections to the invasion of Iraq. I hope that the Iraqi's find their way out of this mess in a way that suits what they want, not what we want.

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A shallow dolt.
""I shared a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated," President Bush said. "Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. And so I didn't like it one bit."

*His comments are not nearly good enough. They are pathetic, thoughtless blurtings of a fool.

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Tarantulas
Tarantulas wrote: "There's no sense showing Iraqi criminals desecrating corpses or executing an Italian civilian, because that's what we expect from them. But when some of the knights in shining armor are shown to be a bit tarnished, people swarm all over the story dripping saliva everywhere. And grinning from ear to ear."

I'm astonished and disappointed that someone with your intelligence would fall back on the old excuse that they do it too and even worse in order to support your instinctive Bush-Republican chauvinism. You seem to be implying their brutality excuses our torture of them. My mother taught me that two wrongs don't make a right.

Tarantulas, have you no shame?

BBB

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Re: Tarantulas

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

Tarantulas wrote: "There's no sense showing Iraqi criminals desecrating corpses or executing an Italian civilian, because that's what we expect from them. But when some of the knights in shining armor are shown to be a bit tarnished, people swarm all over the story dripping saliva everywhere. And grinning from ear to ear."

I'm astonished and disappointed that someone with your intelligence would fall back on the old excuse that they do it too and even worse in order to support your instinctive Bush-Republican chauvinism. You seem to be implying their brutality excuses our torture of them. My mother taught me that two wrongs don't make a right.

Tarantulas, have you no shame?

BBB

First, thanks for the compliment. Very Happy

Second, I didn't say "they're worse than we are." I said "the press is eager to show our actions but not theirs." It's a big difference. We were not shown what happened to Daniel Pearl, but we get to see the naked human pyramid over and over. Seems a little one-sided, doesn't it?

There's worse information on the way. NBC correspondent Jim Miklaszewski apparently had some pretty bad tales to tell in a radio interview with Don Imus. He might be talking about it on the NBC evening news tonight. Basically, the worst abuse was perpetrated by Iraqi guards in the prison. Also:

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A couple of other things Miklaszewski said on the IMUS radio show is that there are videos yet to come out. Also the girl that you see in the pictures was allegedly having sex with one of the MPs in front of the "prisoners" and has become pregnant by him.

I don't know how depraved things got. Maybe we'll find out tonight.

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Tarantulas
Tarantulas, don't try to insult me by expecting me to accept your splitting hairs. You implied what I find offensive.

Be an adult and take responsibility for your chauvinism.

BBB

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Re: Tarantulas

Tarantulas wrote:

We were not shown what happened to Daniel Pearl, but we get to see the naked human pyramid over and over. Seems a little one-sided, doesn't it?

I have seen the Daniel Pearl tape. It's nothing like the naked pyramid and is one of the most brutal things I have ever seen.

The press won't show it because of the level of gore.

Likewise, the press has not been showing the relatively goreless images of a prisoner who was killed in the same prison very much.

For the same concerns about content the more graphic images and portions of images are not being shown.

You may have a point about the press somewhere, but not because of a contrast to the Pearl tape. If the roles were reversed the American press would still not show it simply because of the levels of gore.

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It is clear to me that the torture of Iraqi prisoners has taken away any moral high ground we may have had. We must take all of our troops out of Iraq and President Bush must apologize to the world for the horrible atrocities committed on the innocent Iraqi people. He must, as the Commander in Chief, take the blame.
However, these actions cannot be taken until the end of November 2004.

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U.S. General Suspended Over Iraqi Prisoner Abuse

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