18
   

Cruel or the Circle of Life?

 
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 11:48 am
@Brandon9000,
actually my comment was that I felt empathy for the poor creature - that is why it doesn't feel right..
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 11:52 am
@Linkat,
Linkat: actually my comment was that I felt empathy for the poor creature - ...

For the millions slaughtered by the USA, MEH.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 08:58 pm
@Linkat,
Inbreeding is clearly not an advantage of a species.

Killing the beast and feeding it to predators was a lot closer to what happens in the wild then what most of the people who visit this zoo think.

Having said this...

Could they not have isolated this particular giraffe in a way that it might not have damaged the breeding pool, but still invoked the observational joy of visitors...and lived?

I think so.

And if they decided, after all, that they had to kill the beast did they really need to confront children with the cruelty of nature before their parents might have prepared for it?

The outraged "animal lovers" (who can't appreciate that the individual animals they love must die for the benefit of the species) are, in the main, being ridiculous, but the Zoo wasn't serving its charter by being so explicit.

Modern zoos may think of themselves as preservers of threatened species, but they can't accomplish their perceived goals without the money that flows in from people who like to look at animals.

Zoo personale thinking the public be damned puts them clearly on a path to extinction


farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 10:45 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
All that just didn't happen. It was just BS. They slaughtered the animal behind doors and no zoo patrons were subjected to it.

It probably would have taken more effort to properly house the giraffe (who, as it turned out, was a popular animal at the zoo) so the admin just jumped ahead and slaughtered it.
My questions re: health and safety were pretty much not covered in the lagging newspaper stories on the issue.
I find it more of the CNN factor here speed of reporting trumps accuracy.

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 10:47 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

Zoo personale thinking the public be damned puts them clearly on a path to extinction
ya want to edit this? and Im not scrutinizing the spelling error. whose going to go extint here?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 11:56 pm
@farmerman,
I take it it refers to the zoo personal, and that would be in the sense of becoming unemployed.

Not that I'm trying to speak for Finn, you understand.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2014 01:58 am
There is a difference in USA and Europe how to handle the animals which cannot remain alive. Europe tends to kill them and USA sterilize them.
That again would count for the great amount of Americans compared with Europeans who have protested.

Regarding the food. Whatever the meat eating large animals get - I am sure it is controlled very closely. Still is is often thrown into the cage.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2014 05:25 am
@roger,
wow,his offering could have actually been said cleverly and more simply then.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2014 05:32 am
@saab,
Hoorsemeat is a commodity that I find is often one that has no " corporate conscience" in its offering to zoo animals. Old drey horses, race horses and "pets" often wind up in mass slaughterhouses that are cruel in processing horse meat for zoo animals.
In the US horses have no,(or at least very little) use in the human food chain so we always have excess numbers of these animals available to zoos.
The vitamin and additives are metered out at the particular zoo.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2014 09:39 am
@Thomas,
So you and Saab did ignore this, Thomas. Finn won't. He's interested in the truth. He'll post it so that the "academic" Farmerman can see his mendacity.

------------


Re: Thomas (Post 5580468)
Propaganda and the USA - nobody does it better and no one helps more than Farmerman.

I hope you don't ignore this, Saab, Thomas, ... .
-------------------------

Mad Cow Disease
What the Government Isn't Telling You!

Lorraine Day, M.D.

...


What is the evidence for a cover-up in Mad Cow Disease?

1. As of Jan 6, 2001, the Centers for Disease Control, a government Public Health organization, published on their web site: "BSE has not been shown to exist in the United States." "According to the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services of the United States Dapartment of Agriculture, BSE has NOT been detected in the United States, despite active surveillance efforts for several years." However, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) DOES NOT actively monitor the disease!

The REAL truth is: "A year before BSE was even reported in Britain in 1985, Richard Marsh, Chairman of the Department of Veterinary Science at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, was alerting dairy practitioners of the possibility that a "previously unrecognized scrapie-like disease in cattle" existed in the United States. The clue came in 1981 when "Mad Mink Disease" wiped out a population of minks in Wisconsin who hadn't eaten any sheep at all. The meat portion of their diet consisted almost exclusively of dairy cattle called "Downers," an industry term describing cows which collapse for unknown reasons and are too sick to stand up.

BUT - the beef industry claims that "Downer Cows" DO NOT have Mad Cow Disease! YET - when these Downer Cows were ground up and fed to mink - the mink DEVELOPED "Mad Mink Disease!"

In June 1992, a USDA consultant group decided that changes in the research program to accommodate the possibiity that BSE was already present in the U.S. were, "not appropriate at this time." The panel that made this decision included representatives of the National Milk Producers Federation, the National Renderers Association, the American Sheep Industry Association and the National Cattlemen's Association.

(By the way, Beef is the largest revenue source for American agriculture nationwide. It is a $150 billion dollar industry. Since the FDA protects the pharmaceutical industry, the very industry that it's supposed to police, why wouldn't the USDA (U.S. Dept of Agriculture) protect the Beef and Sheep Industry, even though the USDA is supposed to CONTROL it?)

According to the USDA, "virtually all U.S. feed manufacturers use meat and bone meal in their feeds" and most U.S. cattle are fed such rendered animal tissues. In 1989 alone the U.S. rendered two million tons of cattle for use primarily in animal feed and pet food. There has been a substantial increase in the use of animal protein in commercial dairy feed since 1987.

Dr. Gibbs, who recently chaired a World Health Organization investigation into the disease says "Do I believe BSE is here in the U.S., of course I do," Gibbs made this admission at a University of Wisconsin symposium.

With more than two decades of prion research behind him, Dr. Stanely Prusiner, the scientist who coined the term "prion" and received the Nobel Prize for his work, agrees that Mad Cow Disease MUST be present in the U.S."

In late 1978, Dr. Masuo Doi, a veterinarian with the Food Safety and Quality Service, studied a disorder in some young hogs that had arrived at a Packing Plant in Albany, N.Y. from several Midwestern states. The USDA's pathologist reported that the damage in the pig's brain was similar to the damage observed in the brains of sheep afflicted with scrapie, essentially the same disease as Mad Cow Disease (BSE) in cows.

Finally, the FDA drafted a rule that would ban the fortifying of animal feeds with "any Mammalian tissue." However, the FDA has played a taxonomical shell game by ARBITRARILY REMOVING PIGS FROM THE CLASS OF "MAMMALIA." They declared that a pig is NOT a mammal!

A single teaspoon of ingested high infectivity meat and bone meal is thought to be enough to cause BSE in a cow.

"One hundred thousand cows per year in the United States are fine at night, but dead in the morning. The majority of those cows are rounded up, ground up, fed back to other cows. If only one of them has Mad Cow disease, it has the potential to infect thousands." says Howard Lyman, Cattle Rancher for 40 years.

Mad Cow Risks were First Reported in the United States in 1976!!

"Health experts...knew of the potential dangers of contaminated human growth hormone years before the first Creutzfeldt-Jakob death occurred and experimental programs halted, British court documents reveal. Correspondence dating from the mid- '70s presented to a British judicial inquiry reveal a paper trail betwen the United States National Institutes of Health and the British Government indicating the infectiousness was foreseen," the Los Angeles Times reports.

"Moreover, a safer method for purifying human growth hormone drugs had long been available, but scientists involved in the experiments had ignored it in favor of a cheaper, less labor-intensive option."

In 1989 alone almost 800 million pounds of processed animals were fed to beef and dairy cattle in the U.S.. The USDA has conceded that "the potential risk of amplification of the BSE agent is much greater in the United States" than in Britain.

In 1995 five million tons of processed slaughterhouse leftovers were sold for animal feed in the United States.

Rendering is a $2.4 billion-a-year industry. "There is simply no such thing in America as an animal too ravaged by disease, too cancerous, or too putrid to be welcomed by the embracing arms of the renderer. In addition to diseased farm animals, the city of Los Angeles sends some two hundred tons of euthanized cats and dogs to a rendering plant every month. Added to the blend are the euthanized catch of animal control agencies and roadkill " according to Howard Lyman, a cattle rancher for 40 years. This is the food fed to the animals that YOU EAT!

In the U.S. the rendering industry promised to stop feeding sheep brains to cows years ago; the FDA confirmed that this ban failed.

Unfortunately just about everybody lies. "British government officials misled the public for years over the dangers of British beef and the risk of "mad cow" (BSE) disease spreading to humans," according to Reuters wire service.

"UK Physicians Told Not to Tell Hemophilia Patients of Possible CJD Blood Concerns."

"Mad Cow - BSE- CJD Now Likely to Be a Global Infection" according to New Scientist journal.

BSE has infected a dozen species of animals which presumably ate infected tissue.

http://www.drday.com/madcow.htm
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2014 09:54 am
@farmerman,
Farmer: (getting in a dig at Finn for sloppy use of language) wow,his offering could have actually been said cleverly and more simply then.

Farmerman: ( in a post in this very thread) Hoorsemeat is a commodity that I find is often one that has no " corporate conscience" in its offering to zoo animals.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 08:49 am
An interesting debate has ensued (it appears the Danes are getting touchy about all this and coming up with some whackadoo arguments). The Us Association of Zoos and Aquariums had gently chided the Danes and the EU for some (what we consider somewhat medieval) silly rgumenst like the one they used repeatedly"
"Its(MARIUS'S) genetic makeup was of no use to the EU breeding program"
To this, the AZA stated that
"Duhh,... Hey guys... genetics is not to be viewed in the rear view mirror. You should more carefully and "scientifically" plan your breeding programs to incorporate genetic information of the total members of all the Zoos in the EU Organization" (and apparently not be surprised that little MArius the giraffe didn't magically evolve in utero)

Perhaps the Danes aren't familiar enough with how computers (even a slow desk top) can mnage the genetic complement of an entire continents zoo needs for all its species so that...
"breeding animals that are NOT NEEDED would not be an option"

Ive been merely critiquing the stewardship of livestock as a realistic option for herd maintenance, seems the AZA doesn't even permit feeding of any of the zoos species to other of a zoos species.--It a multinational compact among US , Canada, and Mexico's major zoos

Maybe the AZA is different but Im starting to think that the Danish Zoo program needs some housecleaning. Theyre not as "scientific" s they claim to be
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 10:30 am
@farmerman,
Farmer the academic: Theyre not as "scientific" s they claim to be.
--------------

Amazing, and you let him go on in his ignorance, Thomas, Saab, ... .
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 10:38 am
The Copenhagen Zoo probably is rather good at working with computors.

Research and nature conservation
The Copenhagen Zoo is involved in a number of in situ nature conservation projects in for instance Malaysia, Brazil and Denmark. Furthermore, the zoologists and veterinarians carry out research work within the areas of behaviour, genetics, nature conservation and veterinary issues.
Also they have scientific publications.

Association of Zoos and Aquaria (EAZA). EAZA an association that counts just over 300 members.

As a member of EAZA you agree to the following rules of not selling animals, working on a scientific basis and ensuring animal welfare. The international breeding programmes are fully controlled and open and are collaborations between institutions that follow from the same set of rules. This is important for the breeding programmes to work.”



JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 10:46 am
@saab,
You should throw up the nutty anti-(insert country/nationality) meme, Saab. It works great for the USA and Israel.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 10:50 am
@saab,
yes but my point is, How can a zoo really say that their animal (in this case the giraffe), was an excess to their genetic need and they didn't want to promote inbreeding. WHY DIDNT THEY THINK OF THAT BEFORE THEY BRED THE DOE GIRAFFE? We understand enough about the macros of genetics to know what the approximate genic complement of the little guy would have been. Copenhagen cant have it two ways. They cant claim a "scientific basis of animal husbandry" and then have an "Excess" oops style animal whose genic complement
is now somehow "inconvenient"

Also, Im hearing now that the zoo actually DID slaughter the damn thing in front of people and kids. Jeezuz, puhleeze Lueeze.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 10:56 am
@farmerman,
Farmer - aside from the cultural question re the dissection in front of a lot of onlookers at a zoo - is the dissection scene adequately 'clean' in your view, or does it bother you as a dissection table? Maybe this is usual, including in the U.S., though behind closed doors here?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/wild_things/2014/02/11/why_did_copenhagen_zoo_kill_marius_the_giraffe_cultural_differences_in_conservation.html

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/wild_things/2014/02/11/why_did_copenhagen_zoo_kill_marius_the_giraffe_cultural_differences_in_conservation/468055315-perfectly-healthy-young-giraffe-named-marius-was-shot.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpg
Marius was dissected in front of visitors to the Copenhagen Zoo and fed to the lions.
Photo by KASPER PALSNOV/AFP/Getty Images
saab
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 11:02 am
@farmerman,
Good for you - you seem to know more than the Danes do.
Marius was NOT shot in front of people.
He was dissected - that is what Danish papers call it - in front of people.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 11:03 am
@farmerman,
Farmer - aside from the cultural question re the dissection in front of a lot of onlookers at a zoo - is the dissection scene adequately 'clean' in your view, or does it bother you as a dissection table?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/wild_things/2014/02/11/why_did_copenhagen_zoo_kill_marius_the_giraffe_cultural_differences_in_conservation.html

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/wild_things/2014/02/11/why_did_copenhagen_zoo_kill_marius_the_giraffe_cultural_differences_in_conservation/468055315-perfectly-healthy-young-giraffe-named-marius-was-shot.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpg
Marius was dissected in front of visitors to the Copenhagen Zoo and fed to the lions.
Photo by KASPER PALSNOV/AFP/Getty Images
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 11:14 am
@ossobuco,
A very fair article
 

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