Cruel or the Circle of Life?

This is the zoo in Sweden where the zoo dirctor in Copenhagen did not want the giraffe to go


This is Copenhagen zoo

Farmerman: How bout they let people know way before they come to the zoo for an outing to see the animals NOT get slaughtered.

Yeah, Thomas, USA governments go to great lengths to hide, I mean protect their citizens from having to know that they are slaughtering innocents. You would think, even by Farmer's set of values, that the zoo coulda done a little more.

I think that's an astute observation about my posts, but your interpretation is off. It's not that I lack empathy for animals. I do, and have (limited, alas) actions to show for it. Because of my empathy for animals, I deliberately reduced my consumption of them to about one-fifth the American average. And I would push myself further if it wasn't for my dietary restrictions and my dearth of self-discipline. (Believe me, I'm not proud of the latter.)

So yes, I do care, and I do empathize with animals. But when I discuss emotionally-charged topics, I deliberately tone my feelings down. That's because I'm a German with a sense of history: I know that feelings have caused humans to do horrible things to one another. ("Jews. Ick! Let's put them in the gass chamber".) I also know that this problem isn't German, it's universal. ("Indians. Ick! Let's chase them off our beautiful land and kill them if they won't leave." "Blacks. Ick. Can't marry one of those." "Gay sex. Ick. Let's hang them buggers.") Throughout history, we humans have committed some of our worst atrocities because we relied on our feelings. That's why I deliberately try to supplant feelings with rationality, especially in discussions that people are emotional about.

This is your thread. I don't mean to make it about me, and I apologize for taking it onto this tangent. But since you charged me, twice, with having no empathy or feelings, I thought it fair to defend myself. I don't prefer to judge cases rationally rather than emotionally because I have no feelings or don't care. I prefer it because I do.

Saab: Have you or anyone you knwo protested against the live killing in Chineese zoosß There a live animal is left in the cage with lions or tigers.

Yeah! For dog's sakes, ya think it's the job of zoos to try to replicate natural wild animal behavior/surroundings?

Yeah - but like I said this is the first that it has gone viral; I don't think the majority of people realized this is happening; this is the first that most have heard or seen anything of this that is why this is a first of outrage you are hearing.

- I am not protesting this (if you have read anything I posted) - more questioning it - both sides in a sense - as you can see if you read, I haven't said oh they shouldn't have, more asking should they or there other solutions; I also never protested showing to others/public - more curious as the attraction of it.

You are not saying this prayer for the lobster's sake; it makes no difference to it whether you say it or not. You are saying the prayer for your own sake, because it makes you feel better about the next thing you're going to do to it.

Linkat: Actually I say a prayer whenever I cook lobster.

If you cared at all for lobsters you would do them the courtesy of ripping them apart, raw, with your teeth, just as it happens in their natural existence.

I'm fine either way, with or without the audience present.

I doubt this. Your dog is trained to react when he hears a certain syllable. That doesn't mean he knows this syllable is a "name" (let alone his name).

I bet your dog reacts to "sit" and "come here" as well. Neither is its name.

I am agreeing with Thomas here.

Humans kill animals all the time. The zoo-keepers were following a well-reasoned directive, based in science with the laudable goal of ensuring the health of the gene pool. There is no logical reason to be outraged (for anyone who is not Vegan).

That's not logical on its own. Emotional trauma is not predictable but is preventable by not engaging in a public slaughter of the animal.

In US we have rules on serving up animals to other animals.(health rules you know). Im hoping that Danish "Science" is equal to that level.
You know that we have veterinarians in slaughter houses to conduct initial inspections of slaughterhouses even for pet foods.

Thomas,

I prefer your factual approace to things than a too sentimental. It has nothing to do with you are a German - <I think a lot of people are the same way. A lot of Danes I know are that way too.

Famerman
Denmark has a very high quality level on food. They export to all over the world and is far from some sort of third class country. That you even doubt it shows you do not know a thing about Denmark´s agriculture.

Most people think meat comes from the supermarket. When we sell live animals to customers through our farm we NEVER allow them to slaughter their own, no matter what(We used to allow Muslims to slaughter ritually but they would more often **** it up so badly that we had to make arrangements with a Kosher/ Halal butcher in Lancaster to pick up the LIVE animals and turn them into wrapped packets of lamb meat.(The Muslims, for some reason, do want their male children to watch the entire process)
1, Most people(I would say >90%) are not competent to do a humane slaughter and to keep it clean (Read:quick , with a clean carcass)
2Slaughter often can introduce pathogens into the meat unless the area is controlled and staffed by competent butchers

3Equipment requirements for quick sling- hanging is not generally available to any but butchers or large - animal hospitals.

Saab: Farmer, ... That you even doubt it shows you do not know a thing about Denmark´s agriculture.

Forgive him, Father, for he knows not of which he speaks. He's American.

Let me expand, then.

• If people walked into the culling and the feeding inadvertently, without knowing what they were about to see, I would have a problem with the zoo's information policy.I would have no problem with the culling itself.
  
• If the zoo announced what it was about to do --- as it apparently has --- people could make their own decision. It was their risk of trauma, for them to balance against their education by autopsy.
  
• If the zoo announced what it was about to do, if people brought their children, and if some of the children suffered emotional trauma, I agree that would be a bad thing. But I would put the blame on poor parenting decisions, not the zoo.

Is this logical enough for you?


All the world is not the US. Americans themselves are quick to point that out whenever foreigners condemn American conduct based on their own, foreign rules. So unless you have a specific reason to believe that the zoo put public health at risk, your whole charge is that Danes act by Danish rather than American rules. Get over it.

Well, it doesn't. What's wrong with a reality check from time to time?

I am curious. What do lions living in US zoos eat?

Pretty sure it's quinoa.

They are second stage vegetarians, once removed.

That is, they only eat animals who eat only vegetables.

Eh?

My local big chain organic grocery serves "Vegan Chicken Salad", which I always found a bit funny. Why should I care if the chickens wear leather shoes or not before they are slaughtered for my lunch.