IS AMERICA A BULLY?

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

izzythepush wrote:
The troops stationed here may loathe the locals, there's plenty that do.
I have NEVER, in any State wherein I have resided
heard ANY American veteran express loathing for the English locals; not even disapproval.
What has led u to believe otherwise??

Has there been strife between American troops and the locals ?
I have not heard of anything. Please explain.

David

I was stationed in England for two years...and there did not seem to be any animosity toward the English from the Americans...and quite honestly, I considered the English to be very friendly to us. There was no disharmony that I detected.

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@Frank Apisa,

I did a brief amount of training to army engineers groups on how to find and dig laterite deposits in tropical environments. I did this in UK nd we had a blast with the English engineers ( I can only speak for them).
We would survey and sample the clays at brick pits and then find pubs towash off the dust. Some of the best senses of humor . It was there I learnt how to cook a hedgehog and how they had us going for days on that one.

Noone from our groups were arming the IRA up in Dundalk or Derry

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@Frank Apisa,

The older generation in England calls/called it "friendly invasion" (which I first heard in 1963 there).
And later, they said something like "there's a reason why they are in Germany, but why are they staying here?" (which I first heard in 1963).

I know someone, who's over 90 now. And who has experienced the US soldiers staying in his neighbourhood from the very onwards until today.
Quoting him, would look like *** **** **** *** **** *** ***** Wink

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I did a brief amount of training to army engineers groups on how to find and dig laterite deposits in tropical environments. I did this in UK nd we had a blast with the English engineers ( I can only speak for them).
We would survey and sample the clays at brick pits and then find pubs towash off the dust. Some of the best senses of humor . It was there I learnt how to cook a hedgehog and how they had us going for days on that one.

Noone from our groups were arming the IRA up in Dundalk or Derry

I get that, FM.

Not sure of what is riling Izzy about this relationship...although it might be something in particular that happened between him and a GI.

The English almost always referred to us as "Yanks"...and always with what seemed a friendly spirit. We service people always referred to them as "blokes" (men or women)...as in, "I ran into this bloke guy in town who..." We also were using the term in a friendly spirit.

I am in contact regularly with a half dozen guys I served with over there (60 years ago)...and we regularly trade remembrances about favorite spots. Damn near every one of us is an Anglophile...who would trip back there in a second.

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@Frank Apisa,

Just an aside:

We had college credit courses on base...and the classes were taught or given by teachers from Oxford University. The two I remember right now were Mr. Coward (Spanish) and Mr. Phimister (Philosophy).

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@Frank Apisa,

Thinking about that ... I suppose, I haven't met a lot of British conservatives, so my view of it might be one-sided.

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@OmSigDAVID,

There's lots of anecdotal evidence of groups of soldiers turning up at pubs insulting the country, the weather, the beer, the population etc etc. There are some towns where animosity between the populace and the local garrison goes way back, but there's an extra dimension when those troops are foreign.

The people wanted the American bases closed down when they were used for extraordinary rendition which made us complicit in an illegal act. The reason they're still here is because there's other things to get bothered about that are more pressing like the economy, but they're not really wanted. The Commons vote on Syria was a vote against the American military machine.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Damn near every one of us is an Anglophile...who would trip back there in a second

Im going to have a meet up with several of my guys at a Canadian Geological Association meeting in New Brunswick this MAay. Im really looking forward to seeing how time has treated us all.

Izzy has an annoying habit of building increasingly unbelievable stories or accusations about whomever hes going after.
I also detect some bit of splenetical way about him.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

First off I suspect both yours and Frank's military service was during the height of the Cold War, when Stalin had shown he was not much different from Hitler. I bet it was before the Vietnam war, before Harold Wilson's resignation, before the second Iraq war and before extraordinary rendition.

Secondly, training units are not the same as independent military bases that have a degree of legal autonomy. I've never argued that our two military forces can't train one another.

FM wrote:

Noone from our groups were arming the IRA up in Dundalk or Derry

Maybe not but you've used British oppression to justify funding terrorist acts on mainland Britain. And you've admitted to freely associating with those who did fund terrorist acts. You've made a big play about my use of the word American being misleading because the American government never directly funded the IRA. That is missing the point. If a Moslem organisation was raising money in the UK to carry out bombings in America, they would have been stopped, not given a slap on the wrist for using the wrong tax code.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Izzy has an annoying habit of building increasingly unbelievable stories or accusations about whomever hes going after.

You have a habit of saying things without thinking them through first.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Not sure of what is riling Izzy about this relationship...although it might be something in particular that happened between him and a GI.

Kate Adie's report on the bombing of Tripoli in 1986.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

You have a habit of saying things without thinking them through first.

When I read a lie, I just call it as I read it.

When you accuse me of associating with those funding terrorism you've dded a lie to my statement that said "I knew" of groups funding IRA or Sinn Fein .I READ NEWSPAPERS .

See how you do what you accuse me of? I guess your next extension of what Im saying will be that "I have an offshore account for the PIRA"

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Maybe not but you've used British oppression to justify funding terrorist acts on mainland Britain. And you've admitted to freely associating with those who did fund terrorist acts.

Me personally? Does paranoia run in your family?

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

I knew of several fraternal organizations in NEw England that were clandestinely raising money for the IRA and SInn Fein in the mid 80's and were investigated by the IRS questioning their 501 3(c) status because of it.

that certainly gave me the impression that you knew these people. You used the term 'fraternal' after all. If I'm wrong I apologise.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

No you don't you call someone a liar without stating what exactly it is you think they're lying about.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Not sure of what is riling Izzy about this relationship...although it might be something in particular that happened between him and a GI.

Kate Adie's report on the bombing of Tripoli in 1986.

Not sure how to react to that, Iz.

When I was in England…I always felt I was among friends…whether on base or off. I never felt uncomfortable having a drink in an English Pub or enjoying fish and chips at a small English eatery. I went to movies, theaters, museums and historical places with no thought of being someone not welcome…or possibly in danger. There was respect from the locals…and we respected them in return. My friends and I often ate at the Lincoln NAAFI with British enlisted personnel…and never felt uncomfortable.

Of course there were incidents…a drunken GI can cause a problem anywhere. But they were few and far between.

I would hate to list all the times I have been watching a movie in my living room with Nancy...where a spot I visited during my time there is shown...and I speak excitedly and fondly about it.

If the British ever ask us to leave the UK...I am sure we would do it promptly. But I seriously doubt that will happen any time soon...and I am happy for the servicemembers who get a chance to spend time there.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

You used the term 'fraternal' after all

In the sense that these were supposedly "Social" clubs with some "benefits" to membership. We call many clubs "fraternal organizations". A 501 3(c) is a classification under our tax code that defines a NON profit organization, a fraternal organization or (and including) charitable organization.

They apply for tax exempt status based on whatever they do (their mission as defined to IRS). If a group , say , is a flower club or a "drinking club" , and they are proven to be funneling money to terrorist organizations, they can get a shitload of troubles on their heads, including losing their tax status and doing "time".

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@Frank Apisa,

You asked why I don't want American bases on our soil, what could have triggered such a feeling, and I've answered you. It was the Kate Adie report, I can clearly remember feeling shocked at what had happened and very angry that this war crime had been perpetrated from British soil. Thatcher hadn't even bothered consulting parliament.

I've got no problems with Americans visiting and working here, whenever I'm in London I tend to help out one confused looking American per visit on the tube. Those bases are something else, and the fact that they were used to perpetrate a war crime without any parliamentary oversight was an affront to our national sovereignty.

That feeling was only exacerbated by the invasion of Iraq and extraordinary rendition.

As Walt has pointed out, there's a strong divide between Labour and Tory governments. The Conservatives have always been a lot closer politically to the Americans, more free market anti collective than Labour, and Labour governments have often felt threatened by America. Harold Wilson was never forgiven for keeping us out of Vietnam.

Blair was a special case, he was as interventionist as Bush, something the party membership weren't aware of until it was too late. To my great regret I voted for Blair as party leader thinking he'd get us in to power. He did, but I didn't realise how far right of the party he was.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

izzythepush wrote:
The troops stationed here may loathe the locals, there's plenty that do.
I have NEVER, in any State wherein I have resided
heard ANY American veteran express loathing for the English locals; not even disapproval.
What has led u to believe otherwise??

Has there been strife between American troops and the locals ?
I have not heard of anything. Please explain.

David

I was stationed in England for two years...and there did not seem to be any animosity toward the English from the Americans...and quite honestly, I considered the English to be very friendly to us. There was no disharmony that I detected.

I cannot read anyone's mind, but there could be some resentment amongst some British males that some of those American troops marry and give some British girls a more comfortable lifestyle for her and her eventual children.

Based on the economic prospects in Britain, a career military person really can offer a British girl a degree of financial security that may be harder to find in Britain.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

farmerman wrote:

Izzy has an annoying habit of building increasingly unbelievable stories or accusations about whomever hes going after.

You have a habit of saying things without thinking them through first.

Finally I would like to agree with you. However, he might not care the results? Or, he might have a different set of criteria of acceptable speech than many others?

What I find interesting in relation to Farmerman is that while a geologist is a science, and the function is considered a professional position, back in my high school days, the kids that were trying to get enough credits for an academic diploma, needed for college entrance, would take Earth Science, rather than Chemistry or Physics, if they weren't comfortable with these two "harder" subjects. My point being that one might think Farmerman is a very dignified professional in a very scientific field (i.e., theoretical physics); however, when he was seemingly upset with Santanta, he made reference to the archaic Jewish epithet, "sheeny." My question is, is that archaic in Britain, even amongst those that have any degree of antipathy to Jews? Perhaps, the U.S. just doesn't have the cultural maturation of Britain, if it is archaic in Britain.

1 Reply

IS AMERICA A BULLY?

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