IS AMERICA A BULLY?

@OmSigDAVID,

Your lies about my ego notwithstanding, go back and scan the thread. Frank has been calling me names almost since beginning, and suggesting that first i was angry, and then when he wasn't getting a rise out of me, he switched to playing that game with Olivier.

For someone who routinely insults other people, while playing holier-than-thou about civility, you've got no room to talk about other people's egos.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

Why don't you start by telling us during which exact period you think the US was a "restrained world power"? You've been vague about that. Give us the start and end dates of that era. Then we can talk.

It is my opinion that the US has shown greater restraint on it use of the power it has available to it...than other leading world powers have restrained themselves in use of what they had available to them.

You assert there are many who have shown greater restraint.

Name them...and we will discuss them.

Japan post 1950
Germany post 2005

Both because of the legacy of WW2

Wow...so you consider those two countries to be preeminent world powers.

Interesting!

I don't.

Take a look at the world powers I offered...and maybe you will see the difference.

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Germany and Japan are, and for some time have been, world class economic powers. Of course, both of them developed their post war economies behind an allied military shield, but that doesn't alter the profound effect either of them have been able to exert in the economic sphere.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Wow...so you consider those two countries to be preeminent world powers.

sure, Japan is in decline but both of these countries are preeminent economic powerhouses, which have the power to throw their weight around and mostly decline to do so. I think too that both are more active on the global charity scene than the USA, even though they are much smaller.

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@OmSigDAVID,

I probably wouldn't notice the difference in tone anyway... but don't get the wrong idea; I'm male.

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@Frank Apisa,

I haven't asserted anything very precise, since your thesis remains very vague so far... Like what dates are we talking about here? Are you afraid of talking real history?

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:

Wow...so you consider those two countries to be preeminent world powers.

sure, Japan is in decline but both of these countries are preeminent economic powerhouses, which have the power to throw their weight around and mostly decline to do so. I think too that both are more active on the global charity scene than the USA, even though they are much smaller.

If either you or your friend, Jabba, want to put them in the dominant world power structure of the US...or of ancient Rome in its day...or of England during the 16th and 17th centuries in order to make my thesis seem wrong...

...fine.

I acknowledge that you are willing to go that far.

I get a kick out of it...but I acknowledge it.

Yeah...they show restraint...but of what, I have no idea.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I haven't asserted anything very precise, since your thesis remains very vague so far... Like what dates are we talking about here? Are you afraid of talking real history?

Nothing vague about what I am talking about at all. I have clear, and consistent.

I am saying that we are the dominant power on the planet right at this moment...and we ARE exercising restraint in how we handle it.

I also am saying that the former dominant powers did not exercise as much restraint as we have.

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@Frank Apisa,

So, 1950 to date?

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

So, 1950 to date?

You said you had a list of great world powers that used greater restraint in the use of the powers they had than the US uses now with the power it has.

Let's hear them...or simply acknowledge that you were just kidding.

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@Frank Apisa,

All of them were restrained enough not to develop and use nuclear weapons.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

All of them were restrained enough not to develop and use nuclear weapons.

You mean England in the 16 th century did not develop nuclear weapons because they were restraining themselves?

And since you said "all"...are you suggesting England of today does not have nuclear weapons?

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@Frank Apisa,

We'll get to that as soon as you provide some dates for this alledged US golden age of benevolence. Don't fret, just answer the question.

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@Frank Apisa,

We've not used them have we? Your rules allows for such anachronisms, and it also means that we can use our imagination instead of real evidence. So it's fairly clear if 16th Century Britain had nuclear weapons we would never have used them. Although 16th Century Britain wouldn't count anyway, we didn't fit your definition of major world power in the 16th Century. Although we wouldn't have used them in the 17th 18th or 19th Centuries, for a start we didn't need to. The only country unrestrained enough to use nuclear weapons is America, so by your definitions and rules America is by far the worst bully in all of History, (even Nazi Germany never used nuclear weapons.)

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@OmSigDAVID,

Is that what you want?

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

We'll get to that as soon as you provide some dates for this alledged US golden age of benevolence. Don't fret, just answer the question.

I have not talked about a golden age of benevolence.

I've said that it is my opinion that the US has shown more restraint in its use of the power it has at its disposal...than past preeminent powers, like ancient Greece, Rome, and the dominant European powers of the 15th, 16th, and 17th centuries.

Now...for that list you claim you have.

Let's see it.

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@Frank Apisa,

Ok so you don't want to tell WHEN the US "has shown more restraint"... Unfortunately, that makes your theory unverifiable. Oh well!

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@Frank Apisa,

Give it up, Frank, we bombed the hell out of vast places and still are bombing.

You're spending a thread to acclaim repetitively that we are not worse; it could be argued that much of the moves against us were defensive - complicated, but sort of my view.

We have spent decades wanting to rule or change minds or you're out of there in your own country. Chile, for example.

Our bully stuff has been stand up, if you like bullying.

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@Frank Apisa,

Why don't you show something one of the others powers did and argue it's something America wouldn't do?

So far you've not provided proof of anything. You have an idea of how you'd like things to be, you've stated it but have been unable to demonstrate it's anything other than wishful thinking.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Ok so you don't want to tell WHEN the US "has shown more restraint"... Unfortunately, that makes your theory unverifiable. Oh well!

Yeah...I didn't think you had the list of all those preeminent nations!

I was wondering how you would dodge the question rather than simply acknowledge that you didn't.

I thought you would do better.

Obviously I have to lower my expectations of you.

1 Reply

IS AMERICA A BULLY?

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