Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 02:30 pm
@panzade,
panzade wrote:

Quote:
Some may be reliable, but many are not.

True. True about everybody cutting and pasting here.
But I can read and I am able to discern and I am comfortable with the fact that JTT has <in general> proved his case.
That the US has been a bully in the last 100 years.
And I'll go along with Frank's assertion: That we could have been a lot worse.
Is everybody happy?


I'm happy.

But then again...I am almost always happy. Wink
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 02:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Why don't you try to stop this pettiness, Olivier.

Thanks for the laugh. You made my day, petty one.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 02:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

You just do not like hearing that your nation, when it was powerful, was much more ruthless and much less restrictive of the use of its power than America is being with its power.

Sorry that is knocking you so off kilter...but that is your problem to deal with.


There's nothing to deal with. The British Empire is part of History lessons, not what's going on in the here and now. It's a lot more arms length, not at all like the immediacy you must feel. This whole notion was set up on some ridiculous premise that only exists in your head. You've not provided any evidence to back up your claims just asked us to imagine how things could be worse.

Imagine if the legal system was run like that. Every criminal would run down a list of the worst criminals in History, Jack the Ripper, Jeffrey Dahmer, Klau Barbie etc. etc. Next to those guys the accused is an angel and must be let off.

Far from showing America's virtues this whole thread is an invitation to list all of America's crimes. JTT will be really pissed off when he finds he's missed this.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 02:52 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Why don't you try to stop this pettiness, Olivier.

Thanks for the laugh. You made my day, petty one.


Whatever.

I'm glad your sense of humor is alive enough to laugh.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 02:59 pm
@panzade,
I guess you're right. You could have killed ALL the natives rather than just 90% of them...
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 02:59 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

You just do not like hearing that your nation, when it was powerful, was much more ruthless and much less restrictive of the use of its power than America is being with its power.

Sorry that is knocking you so off kilter...but that is your problem to deal with.


There's nothing to deal with. The British Empire is part of History lessons, not what's going on in the here and now. It's a lot more arms length, not at all like the immediacy you must feel. This whole notion was set up on some ridiculous premise that only exists in your head.


It is not a ridiculous notion. You don't agree with it...fine. But I think it is a worthwhile consideration.


Quote:
You've not provided any evidence to back up your claims just asked us to imagine how things could be worse.


It is my opinion that great world powers have all abused their power...and that America is being more restrained than other nations were when they had the power.

If that is too big a stretch for you...okay. We don't have to agree on everything.

Quote:
Imagine if the legal system was run like that. Every criminal would run down a list of the worst criminals in History, Jack the Ripper, Jeffrey Dahmer, Klau Barbie etc. etc. Next to those guys the accused is an angel and must be let off.


No...I have not framed it that way. I have not even suggested that America is an angel...it most assuredly is not. But compared with what could possibly have been...it is not the bit of scum some would have us accept it to be.

Quote:
Far from showing America's virtues this whole thread is an invitation to list all of America's crimes. JTT will be really pissed off when he finds he's missed this.



It seems to be the rage these days to paint America as dastardly. We are not angels...but many of the people doing the complaining are, in my opinion, carrying it too far.

If you think that my defense of America is wrong-headed...I will have to live with that.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 03:04 pm
@panzade,
Very well put Pan, unfortunately we'll have to ignore it because neither Vichy France nor colonial Belgium were major world superpowers. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Frank.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 03:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
..it is not the bit of scum some would have us accept it to be...........It seems to be the rage these days to paint America as dastardly. We are not angels...but many of the people doing the complaining are, in my opinion, carrying it too far.

If you think that my defense of America is wrong-headed...I will have to live with that.


Completely wrong Frank, and you've shown that you've let other's portrayal of America really get to you. I imagine you started this thread to point out how much better America has behaved compared to ...., and that your aim was to get people to feel a bit better about America. In that respect, you've failed.

If anything this thread has dredged up a lot of anti-Americanism, and people will feel less sympathetic towards America as a result. Your preachy way of addressing issues and insistence upon bizarre anachronistic points of reference has rubbed everyone up the wrong way, American and non-American alike.

If you'd really thought this through you'd know this was doomed to fail from the off. If you want people to think well of Americans why not start a thread about what some Americans are doing to make a better place? Maybe one about Bill Gates' war on Malaria.
panzade
 
  4  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 03:23 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
JTT will be really pissed off when he finds he's missed this.


<guffaw>
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 03:29 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Rest assured my sense of humour is always there, even when you are not always funny.

You finding others "petty" was hilarious though... :-)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 03:30 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
..it is not the bit of scum some would have us accept it to be...........It seems to be the rage these days to paint America as dastardly. We are not angels...but many of the people doing the complaining are, in my opinion, carrying it too far.

If you think that my defense of America is wrong-headed...I will have to live with that.


Completely wrong Frank, and you've shown that you've let other's portrayal of America really get to you. I imagine you started this thread to point out how much better America has behaved compared to ...., and that your aim was to get people to feel a bit better about America. In that respect, you've failed.

If anything this thread has dredged up a lot of anti-Americanism, and people will feel less sympathetic towards America as a result. Your preachy way of addressing issues and insistence upon bizarre anachronistic points of reference has rubbed everyone up the wrong way, American and non-American alike.

If you'd really thought this through you'd know this was doomed to fail from the off. If you want people to think well of Americans why not start a thread about what some Americans are doing to make a better place? Maybe one about Bill Gates' war on Malaria.


Everyone???

Not everyone, Izzy. Wink
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 03:31 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Rest assured my sense of humour is always there, even when you are not always funny.

You finding others "petty" was hilarious though... :-)


You being bothered by being called petty is even funnier.

Hey...we both had a laugh...and mine was great.

I hope yours was also. Wink
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 03:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It was mightier and more prolonged... In fact I'm still laughing.

And then, assuming I was 'hurt'.... Priceless!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 03:38 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

It was mightier and more prolonged... In fact I'm still laughing.

And then, assuming I was 'hurt'.... Priceless!


You are catching on, Olivier. I'm delighted I have been an enlightening influence on you. Wink

Now we can both laugh like crazy together, because we are both enjoying this so much! Wink

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 04:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Pretty much everyone. This thread hasn't made me think of what I like about America, but of that I'm not happy about. Here's something about America I like.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 04:14 pm
The here and now trumps historical events every time. If I was an Afghani whose father was killed yesterday by an American drone, and whose great great great grandfather had been bayoneted by a British soldier during the reign of Queen Victoria, guess which death would piss me off the most?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 04:54 pm
@izzythepush,
For Allah's sake, they are called AFGHANS. Afghanis refers to the currency.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 04:56 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Pretty much everyone. This thread hasn't made me think of what I like about America, but of that I'm not happy about. Here's something about America I like.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_3XVxPauiA[/youtube]



Well, Izzy...the people who want to bad-mouth America...both domestic and from outside the country...don't really need me to do their bad-mouthing.

In any case, I say America has acted with more restraint than other great world powers when they had the muscle.

We've done plenty wrong...but so have so many before us. That doesn't excuse us...but it does give some reflection on perspective.

For those who don't like the fact that I am defending my country...

...TOUGH.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 05:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I'm delighted I have been an enlightening influence on you.

Keep on saying funny BS then. Just remember I have little patience for war crime apologists.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 05:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
For those who don't like the fact that I am defending my country...

...TOUGH.
It has never occurred to me
to have any interest in the opinions of aliens about America, be thay good, bad or indifferent.





David
 

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