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Raul Castro calls for civilized relations. So do I long time.

 
 
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 11:46 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25479795


Discuss. Is that possible?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 8 • Views: 3,291 • Replies: 81

 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 10:23 am
I would vote to make it so.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 10:40 am
I agree with Edgar. I would love to see it so.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 11:36 am
Cuba, like Haiti, has been treated very shabbily by the West. In both countries the peasants/slaves rose up against their Western backed overlords.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 01:02 pm
Of course it's possible. Many other countries have civilized relations with Cuba, it's only you guys that don't. It's been due for a long time. They need spices in their food, for the love of dog..
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 01:08 pm
Yeah, that's fine, and I can even forgive them for pointing nuclear missiles at us and then lying about it. We can have diplomatic relations with them. Let's note in passing, however, that Cuba is a total dictatorship.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 01:33 pm
@Brandon9000,
I agree with was has been said above
Brandon9000 wrote:
We can have diplomatic relations with them. Let's note in passing, however, that Cuba is a total dictatorship.
... as is Eritrea, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Saudi-Arabia, Equatorial Guinea, all with US-diplomatic missions.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 02:01 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I agree with was has been said above
Brandon9000 wrote:
We can have diplomatic relations with them. Let's note in passing, however, that Cuba is a total dictatorship.
... as is Eritrea, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Saudi-Arabia, Equatorial Guinea, all with US-diplomatic missions.

Yes, true. Like I said, we can have diplomatic relations with them, but let's not forget that they go into the totalitarian column.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 03:01 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I agree with was has been said above
Brandon9000 wrote:
We can have diplomatic relations with them. Let's note in passing, however, that Cuba is a total dictatorship.
... as is Eritrea, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Saudi-Arabia, Equatorial Guinea, all with US-diplomatic missions.

Yes, true. Like I said, we can have diplomatic relations with them, but let's not forget that they go into the totalitarian column.


They were already in that column when Cuba was the US's playground, under Bautista. He was no better than Castro, but he allowed the Americans to do anything they liked.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 03:27 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I agree with was has been said above
Brandon9000 wrote:
We can have diplomatic relations with them. Let's note in passing, however, that Cuba is a total dictatorship.
... as is Eritrea, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Saudi-Arabia, Equatorial Guinea, all with US-diplomatic missions.

Yes, true. Like I said, we can have diplomatic relations with them, but let's not forget that they go into the totalitarian column.


They were already in that column when Cuba was the US's playground, under Bautista. He was no better than Castro, but he allowed the Americans to do anything they liked.

If you're somehow implying that their dictatorship is our fault, it isn't. We have a democracy.
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 03:52 pm
@Brandon9000,
I am stating that we love or hate dictatorships based on what they do for or to us, not the type of government they have.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 03:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I am stating that we love or hate dictatorships based on what they do for or to us, not the type of government they have.

Actually, I, like many people, hate dictatorships because they are dictatorships. It doesn't mean that I won't deal with them at all. But it is an absolute truth that dictatorship is bad. If, in fact, we deal with them, we are not dealing with their people, but with a bunch of thugs who rule by force.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 03:57 pm
@Brandon9000,
On that I can agree with you.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 04:33 pm
@edgarblythe,
Generally speaking, I think dictatorships need some "fresh air". Of course, we in the U.S. could use some too, as it happens.

I've friends who have been to Cuba, one, for example, going a couple of times to bring condoms to help in aids avoidance. Cicerone Imposter has been there, I think more than once. Wonder what he thinks of this possible change. And I wonder what Fbaezer's take on this possibility would be.
I'm so old that a playmate's parents went there for vacation in the Batista years.

I don't know the ins and outs of everyday life there, but it is surely tried by poverty for various reasons including embargo (or whatever you call it). I know a little from reading the cuban fiction writer, Leonardo Padura. He writes procedurals, a bunch of them with a protagonist, Mario Condi. I think I've read two, but the one on my shelf at present is Havana Red, put out by Bitter Lemon Press.

Interesting guy, Padura. There was an article about him somewhere, recently. Probably the New Yorker.
Yep, here's an abstract of the article (all you can see if you don't subscribe or pay a smallish fee):
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/10/21/131021fa_fact_anderson
Jon Lee Anderson's article is typically New Yorker long, and quite interesting.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 04:48 pm
It is time to wake the hell up and repair relations with Cuba.

We tolerated a dictatorship when before the Revolution...and we can tolerate one now. And it is easier to influence them toward more openness if we are speaking...than if we maintain this silly hatred.

Many of the Cuban ex-patriots are less bothered by the dictatorship...than by the fact that the dictator is not their dictator.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 04:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

It is time to wake the hell up and repair relations with Cuba.

We tolerated a dictatorship when before the Revolution...and we can tolerate one now. And it is easier to influence them toward more openness if we are speaking...than if we maintain this silly hatred.

Many of the Cuban ex-patriots are less bothered by the dictatorship...than by the fact that the dictator is not their dictator.

Yeah, we can do that, and it may even be helpful, but I, personally, am bothered by dictatorship. The Cubans and the citizens of other dictatorships deserve to rule themselves, rather than being intimidated into silence, or bullied and beaten, by thugs. I don't care if some hypothetical ex-patriots aren't bothered by the plight of their former countrymen as you wish. Everything isn't relative. Dictatorship is bad.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 04:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I take that as true, Frank, though I don't know any cuban expats in the u.s. personally, just that I've heard such. As usual, it can be wrong to stereotype a group, maybe there are some who think otherwise.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 05:02 pm
@Ceili,
I know, I know, I meant is there a chance we in the u.s. will change our ways.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 05:10 pm
@ossobuco,
This is the essence of proper foreign relationships.
Quote:
Cuban President Raul Castro has called for "civilised relations" with the United States, saying the two countries should respect their differences.


We trade with China, Russia, and Vietnam.

The excuse that Obama makes about Cuba is stupid! It's more about "local" politics than it is trade. One can buy Cuban cigars in every country in this world except in the US. When anyone travels outside the US and buys Cuban cigars, what laws are broken?

The people of Cuba like Amerians, and Americans like Cubans. Many Americans now travel to Cuba with US travel companies - although they must first get a "license." If it's about spending US dollars in Cuba, that doesn't make any sense! How does our government think suppliers in Cuba are paid when US customers pay in US dollars?

Anyone can buy Cuban cigars in Canada, Mexico, most of Europe, and even in Asia.

Any excuse given by our government as to why we can't lift the embargo against Cuba is fundamentally stupid and lacks common sense.





ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 05:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Thanks for showing up, C.I.
 

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