8
   

Raul Castro calls for civilized relations. So do I long time.

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 05:30 pm
@ossobuco,
My pleasure - especially since it's about Cuba, one of my favorite places on this planet.

This picture was taken in January of this year. The guy in the middle is Hiroshi Robaina, the grandson of Alejandro Robaina, the founder of the best tobacco (once the largest) farm in Cuba.
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag215/Tak_Nomura/P1050142_zps74e950f4.jpg
If you notice the photograph Hiroshi is holding; that one was taken the year before.

From Cigar Aficionado
Quote:
Cuba's Cigar Legend, Alejandro Robaina
The dean of Cuban tobacco men and his grandson, Hiroshi, discuss the state of cigars in their homeland in a wide-ranging interview.


Hiroshi is a friend of mine as are many in Cuba.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 05:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, local politics shutting out useful change, very shortsighted.

I've been good, I didn't even mention cuban music yet.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 05:39 pm
@ossobuco,
Another good thing about Cuba is the fact that almost all bars and restaurants have live music. They have music and dancing in the streets of Havana.
One evening when we were walking on Obispo Street, a musician who knew my travel friend opened up his guitar and started singing to us. Where else in this world would anybody find this kind of impromptu event?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 05:52 pm
@Brandon9000,
I don't fully know the sociology and politics of the cuban expats in Florida, and now their children and children's children, but I take it from various articles (no links, I don't memorize my reading) that there was reminiscence of the good years they had with Batista.
I'm fine with hearing from those who know more.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 06:08 pm
@ossobuco,
We don't talk politics when we're in Cuba. Since the average income is so low, the government subsidizes many of their shelter, food, and health care.

We have been invited to private homes in Cuba; their middle class standard is quite comfortable, but many live in old, small spaced, beat up buildings that have had no maintenance done for many decades - and it shows. If one can look beyond the disrepair, one can see the once beautiful buildings. I take many pictures of them, and hope that some day they will be refurbished to their glory day appearance. Some are being renovated, and many hotels are first class. My friend and I stay at many B&B's in Cuba; they are all clean with private toilets and bathrooms.

This is one of our favorite smoke rooms, Prado 309, next door to one of our favorite restaurants, La Terraza. That's my travel buddy, Alexander (Canadian, but lives in Mexico).
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag215/Tak_Nomura/20131JANCubaA2012-12-29059_zpsec65c3b8.jpg
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 06:47 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

It is time to wake the hell up and repair relations with Cuba.

We tolerated a dictatorship when before the Revolution...and we can tolerate one now. And it is easier to influence them toward more openness if we are speaking...than if we maintain this silly hatred.

Many of the Cuban ex-patriots are less bothered by the dictatorship...than by the fact that the dictator is not their dictator.

Yeah, we can do that, and it may even be helpful, but I, personally, am bothered by dictatorship. The Cubans and the citizens of other dictatorships deserve to rule themselves, rather than being intimidated into silence, or bullied and beaten, by thugs. I don't care if some hypothetical ex-patriots aren't bothered by the plight of their former countrymen as you wish. Everything isn't relative. Dictatorship is bad.


Actually, Dictatorships are efficient...a hell of a lot more efficient than democracies. I prefer democracy...much prefer it, but there is no doubt that democracies are inefficient as hell.

In any case, as has been noted, we do business with dictatorships all the time. Why not with one of our closest neighbors?
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

It is time to wake the hell up and repair relations with Cuba.

We tolerated a dictatorship when before the Revolution...and we can tolerate one now. And it is easier to influence them toward more openness if we are speaking...than if we maintain this silly hatred.

Many of the Cuban ex-patriots are less bothered by the dictatorship...than by the fact that the dictator is not their dictator.

Yeah, we can do that, and it may even be helpful, but I, personally, am bothered by dictatorship. The Cubans and the citizens of other dictatorships deserve to rule themselves, rather than being intimidated into silence, or bullied and beaten, by thugs. I don't care if some hypothetical ex-patriots aren't bothered by the plight of their former countrymen as you wish. Everything isn't relative. Dictatorship is bad.


Actually, Dictatorships are efficient...a hell of a lot more efficient than democracies. I prefer democracy...much prefer it, but there is no doubt that democracies are inefficient as hell.

In any case, as has been noted, we do business with dictatorships all the time. Why not with one of our closest neighbors?

Yes, probably we should, but are you saying something to the effect that dictatorship isn't so bad? That would pretty much disqualify you from being taken seriously in my book. People have the right to determine what happens in their own countries, as opposed to being arrested and thrown in jail if they say something the government doesn't like. Actually, it is so bad.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:27 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
Raul Castro calls for civilized relations.

Hard to argue with that. Who wouldn't want civilized relations.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 08:37 pm
@rosborne979,
The U.S. it has seemed -
I just skimmed, and I do mean skimmed, an NPR article on this, but I remember the ending, something about status quo.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 08:57 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

It is time to wake the hell up and repair relations with Cuba.

We tolerated a dictatorship when before the Revolution...and we can tolerate one now. And it is easier to influence them toward more openness if we are speaking...than if we maintain this silly hatred.

Many of the Cuban ex-patriots are less bothered by the dictatorship...than by the fact that the dictator is not their dictator.

Yeah, we can do that, and it may even be helpful, but I, personally, am bothered by dictatorship. The Cubans and the citizens of other dictatorships deserve to rule themselves, rather than being intimidated into silence, or bullied and beaten, by thugs. I don't care if some hypothetical ex-patriots aren't bothered by the plight of their former countrymen as you wish. Everything isn't relative. Dictatorship is bad.


Actually, Dictatorships are efficient...a hell of a lot more efficient than democracies. I prefer democracy...much prefer it, but there is no doubt that democracies are inefficient as hell.

In any case, as has been noted, we do business with dictatorships all the time. Why not with one of our closest neighbors?

Yes, probably we should, but are you saying something to the effect that dictatorship isn't so bad? That would pretty much disqualify you from being taken seriously in my book. People have the right to determine what happens in their own countries, as opposed to being arrested and thrown in jail if they say something the government doesn't like. Actually, it is so bad.


No, Brandon...that is not what you should take away from my comments. But if you decide to actually read what I said...I said that dictatorships are efficient, but that I would much, much prefer democracy.

Would you like me to add a few more "much's" in there?
Brandon9000
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 01:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I have no trouble with establishing the same relations with them that we have with other dictatorships, of which the most important is China. The Cuban Missile Crisis is a long time ago.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 01:35 pm
@Brandon9000,
Not only "a long time ago," but the reasons for the embargo are stupid and outdated. All countries deal with Cuba except the US; how stupid is that?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 01:40 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

I have no trouble with establishing the same relations with them that we have with other dictatorships, of which the most important is China. The Cuban Missile Crisis is a long time ago.


Then we are in sync, Brandon.

I am delighted the hand-shake incident happened...and that Raul Castro called for something more...

...and I fervently hope we can normalize relations with Cuba.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 03:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Not only "a long time ago," but the reasons for the embargo are stupid and outdated. All countries deal with Cuba except the US; how stupid is that?

The reasons aren't stupid at all. They pointed nuclear missiles at us and then lied about it. They are outdated, though.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 03:23 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
Not only "a long time ago," but the reasons for the embargo are stupid and outdated. All countries deal with Cuba except the US; how stupid is that?

The reasons aren't stupid at all. They pointed nuclear missiles at us and then lied about it. They are outdated, though.


Actually, the Cubans allowed the Soviets to point missiles at us. They had almost no control over the missiles at all. And the Soviets pointed missiles at us because we were pointing a hell of a lot of missiles at them.

The missile pointing is besides the point.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 03:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Brandon, We're talking about TODAY, not 50 decades ago. If you wish to look at history, we had WWI and WWII, and those enemies are now our friends and trade partners. We also trade with China, Russia, and Vietnam.

Your myopia shows how ignorant you are!
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 03:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Brandon, We're talking about TODAY, not 50 decades ago. If you wish to look at history,
we had WWI and WWII, and those enemies are now our friends
and trade partners. We also trade with China, Russia, and Vietnam.

Your myopia shows how ignorant you are!
Consistent with your ignorance, Imposter,
u don 't know that ". . . 50 decades ago" was December of 1513.





David
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 03:37 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Brandon, We're talking about TODAY, not 50 decades ago. If you wish to look at history,
we had WWI and WWII, and those enemies are now our friends
and trade partners. We also trade with China, Russia, and Vietnam.

Your myopia shows how ignorant you are!
Consistent with your ignorance, Imposter,
u don 't know that ". . . 50 decades ago" was December of 1513.





David



???????
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 03:39 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Ignorance knows no bounds. LOL

David has shown often how stupid he is on a2k. Wonder of wonders, he has friends of like-minded idiots!
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Dec, 2013 03:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Brandon, We're talking about TODAY, not 50 decades ago. If you wish to look at history,
we had WWI and WWII, and those enemies are now our friends
and trade partners. We also trade with China, Russia, and Vietnam.

Your myopia shows how ignorant you are!
Consistent with your ignorance, Imposter,
u don 't know that ". . . 50 decades ago" was December of 1513.





David
???????
He is referring to wars of the 1900s
as having occurred 5OO years ago, and then he has the effrontery
to accuse Brandon of being "ignorant" (his favorite word [not counting "penis"] ).

I suspect that the imposter prefers "penises"
even better than "ignorance" !
 

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