30
   

So Saying That Folks Should Follow Christian Morals is NOW A Firing Offense

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:56 pm
@BillRM,
I don't think you know what "public square" means.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 11:03 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
It is a matter of capitalism. If the network and sponsors conclude that the character is going to lose money for them, he has to go.


An odd conclusion given what is now happening so either the people who reach that conclusion are brain dead or there is something driving this that have nothing to do with dollars and cents.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 11:57 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Bullshit it is another example of PC running amok and a small minority trying to dictate what people can say in the public square without fear for doing so.

Oh, please, this is not "PC" running amok. This has nothing to do with being "PC".

All groups have the right to be protected from unfair discrimination and from becoming targets of hate. The ADL was originally founded in 1913 to confront anti-Semitism, it now fights to protect the civil and human rights of all groups--including homosexuals.
Quote:
The Anti-Defamation League was founded in 1913 "to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all." Now the nation's premier civil rights/human relations agency, ADL fights anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry, defends democratic ideals and protects civil rights for all.
http://www.adl.org/about-adl/

There is nothing unique to the gay community about how they respond to defamation when are unfairly characterized by people like Phil Robertson. All minority groups have an advocacy to respond to such assaults. There is nothing new about any of this.

There was the Italian-American Civil Rights League...
Quote:
The group then turned its attention to what it perceived as cultural slights against Italian-Americans, using boycott threats to force Alka-Seltzer and The Ford Motor Company to withdraw television commercials the league objected to, and also got United States Attorney General John Mitchell to order the United States Justice Department to stop using the word "Mafia" in official documents and press releases. The league also secured an agreement from Al Ruddy, the producer of The Godfather, to omit the terms "Mafia" and "Cosa Nostra" from the film's dialogue, and succeeded in having Macy's stop selling a board game called The Godfather Game. The IACRL boycotted the Ford Motor Company because of its sponsorship of the television show The F.B.I. and its negative references to Italian-Americans as gangsters. Alka Seltzer was boycotted for its "Dat's a Spicy Meatball" ad campaign....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian-American_Civil_Rights_League

Consider what Phil Robertson accuses homosexuals of. He's just not saying he doesn't approve of a gay lifestyle, or he doesn't support same-sex marriage, he goes way beyond that and vilifies everything about them.
Quote:
“Women with women. Men with men. They committed indecent acts with one another. And they received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion,” Robertson said in the video. “They’re full of murder, envy, strife, hatred. They are insolent, arrogant God haters. They are heartless, they are faithless, they are senseless, they are ruthless, they invent ways of doing evil.”
http://www.deadline.com/2013/12/ae-grapples-with-death-threats-and-clan-ultimatum-on-duck-dynasty-star-suspension/

Gay rights groups should react to crap like that, just the same way the ADL would react if he said those same things about Jews, or the black civil rights groups would react if he characterized all blacks in that way, and just as Italian-Americans did when they didn't want to all be thought of, or portrayed as being, mobsters and murderers.

And actually, the most I heard that G.L.A.A.D. asked for was an apology from Robertson--which he has refused to do.

And, you are clearly over-looking the fact, that on the other side, there are anti-gay groups, like the Family Research Council, that are very much trying to dictate, not only what can be said, and taught in schools, but the kind of research that can be funded, what people can do in the privacy of their bedrooms, and they have even advocated for the criminalization of extra-marital sex and homosexual sex.

And, in furtherance of their objectives they not only put forth distortions, they promote outright rights--particularly about homosexuals.
Quote:
Politics, policies and positions

The Family Research Council opposes efforts to make a vaccine for human papilloma virus (HPV), a virus that causes cervical cancer, mandatory for school attendance. It defends this on the basis of rights of parents and because of its support for abstinence prior to marriage.

It supports a federal conscience clause, allowing medical workers to refuse to provide certain treatments to their patients, such as abortion, blood transfusion or birth control. It also advocates for abstinence-only sex education, intelligent design and prayer in public schools, and the regulation of pornography and other "obscene, indecent, or profane programming" on broadcast and cable television. It opposed, but failed to defeat, the introduction of a .xxx domain name, and it lobbied for an increase in indecency fines from the Federal Communications Commission.

The FRC also holds that hotel pornography may be prosecutable under federal and state obscenity laws. It opposes the expansion of civil rights laws to include sexual orientation and gender identity as illegal bases for discrimination.

The Family Research Council is also fiscally conservative and wants to increase the child tax credit. The FRC supports the requirement of a one-year waiting period before a married couple with children can legally get a divorce so that they can receive marital counseling, unless the marriage involves domestic violence. Permanently eliminating the marriage penalty and estate taxes are also issues FRC supports.

The Family Research Council opposes legalized abortion, stem-cell research which involves the destruction of human embryos and funding thereof (instead advocating research using adult stem cells), legal recognition of same-sex domestic partnerships in the form of marriage or civil unions, and all forms of gambling. The Family Research Council has questioned the idea that humans are mainly or completely responsible for climate change, and has opposed other evangelicals who have affirmed their belief of global warming.

Statements on homosexuality

According to the Family Research Council, "homosexual conduct is harmful to the persons who engage in it and to society at large, and can never be affirmed" and it is "by definition unnatural, and as such is associated with negative physical and psychological health effects." The Council also asserts that "there is no convincing evidence that a homosexual identity is ever something genetic or inborn". An amicus brief was submitted by the Council jointly with Focus on the Family in the U.S. Supreme Court case Lawrence v. Texas, the case that overturned sodomy laws on privacy grounds. The summary of the amicus curiae brief declares that "States may discourage the 'evils' ... of sexual acts outside of marriage by means up to and including criminal prohibition" and that it is constitutionally permissible for Texas to "choose to protect marital intimacy by prohibiting same-sex 'deviate' acts". Similar positions have been advocated by representatives of the organisation since the Supreme Court case was decided in 2003.

In February 2010, the Family Research Council's Senior Researcher for Policy Studies, Peter Sprigg, stated on NBC's Hardball that gay behavior should be outlawed and that "criminal sanctions against homosexual behavior" should be enforced. In May that same year, Sprigg publicly suggested that repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy would encourage molestation of heterosexual service members. In November 2010, Perkins was asked about Sprigg's comments regarding the criminalization of same-sex behavior: he responded that criminalizing homosexuality is not a goal of the Family Research Council. Perkins repeated the FRC's association of homosexuals with pedophilia, stating: "If you look at the American College of Pediatricians, they say the research is overwhelming that homosexuality poses a danger to children." The opinions expressed by Perkins are contradicted by mainstream social science research on same-sex parenting, and on the likelihood of child molestation by homosexuals and bisexuals, which has been found to be no higher than child molestation by heterosexuals. Some scientists whose work is cited by the American College of Pediatricians - a small conservative organization which was formed when the American Academy of Pediatrics endorsed adoption by same-sex couples - have said that it has distorted and misrepresented their work. The opinions and statements made by Sprigg and Perkins in 2010 contributed to the decision by the Southern Poverty Law Center to designate the FRC as a hate group in the Winter 2010 issue of its magazine, Intelligence Report.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Research_Council

And the Family Research Council has been front and center in attacking gays over the Duck Dynasty flap--accusing them of the very same things you have--on Fox News. That's whose propaganda you've chosen to absorb.

The Family Research Council has been trying to put people in prison for acting in ways they don't agree with...like gambling, or extra-marital sex, or simply being homosexual and having sex with a partner. They want to decide for everyone what "decency" is, using only their standards.

All the homosexual advocacy groups want is to have the same civil rights as everyone else, and not to be unfairly defamed or portrayed. That's not "PC"--it's asking to be treated with basic civility and civil rights. And they are not trying to limit or control other people's behavior the way that a group like the Family Research Council is trying to do.

coldjoint
 
  0  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 12:52 am
@firefly,
Quote:
All the homosexual advocacy groups want is to have the same civil rights as everyone else, and not to be unfairly defamed or portrayed. That's not "PC"--it's asking to be treated with basic civility and civil rights. And they are not trying to limit or control other people's behavior the way that a group like the Family Research Council is trying to do.


I am afraid it is PC. PC was designed for the sole purpose of destroying Western culture. And destroying the family and religion is a huge part of that.
And promoting,or should I say broadcasting, homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle is aimed at destroying both.

If any of you would do some research you would find out how exactly you have come to believe tolerating evil is somehow understanding and right.
You have been emasculated and are now scared to say Boo. You are going to loose everything past generations died for. And you will be shouting racist and bigot the whole time just as it was planned in Hungary in the 1930s.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 04:32 am
@firefly,
Quote:
All groups have the right to be protected from unfair discrimination and from becoming targets of hate. The ADL was originally founded in 1913 to confront anti-Semitism, it now fights to protect the civil and human rights of all groups--including homosexuals.


Sorry they wish to be able to take the livelihood away from any high profile person who dare to publicly support a religious anti-gay position.

No real moral difference at all from Russia who take away the freedom of anyone who is a supporter of the gay cause.

As I had already posted I am fairly sure that if it was not for the first amendment the gay rights community would be trying to have hate speech laws pass to imprison such people as Phil Robertson.

No group on either side of any issue repeat any issue should be allowed the power to punish members of the other group either under the color of law or by economic means for expressing their feelings on the matter an that is even more important when it come to religion matters.

I have zero respect for Phil Robertson religion views but as silly and as annoying as they might be he still should be able to state them when ask without the fear to his livelihood from a small pressure group.

It is not either his viewers or his show sponsors that are turning away from him this is the work of a small group who have declare the right to exercise punishment for attacking them and I can only hope that both his 14 millions or so supporters/viewers and his sponsors can exercise enough power to stop this nonsense.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 09:13 am
@coldjoint,
None of us are tolerating evil.... even when it comes in a pink font.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 09:26 am
@Advocate,
I rest my case
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 09:38 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
I rest my case.


No, you have put your case out of reach, in your eyes. Believe it or not, some people just might know more about Islam, among other things, than you.



I think his point was he knows more about logical fallacies then you do.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 09:39 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I dont organize my politics along traditional american lines.


Nor do You organize your politics with any sense of reality.

I think his employer provided the harm, if any. Not some esoteric collective. What about the harm he provided to others through his words?

I doubt he suffered any real harm. I wonder if his pay was affected. The suspension was more symbolic than real.

0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 09:43 am
@firefly,
Quote:
I think A & E's problem is that they tried to straddle both sides of the fence on this one.


Quote:

This isn't about "freedom" of anything--it's about attracting viewers and advertising revenue.


That is true.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 09:45 am
@maxdancona,
Speech that incites violence is disallowed by law.

If you believe Bashir's comment was legal, one would assume it is because you do not think it might incite violence. Obviously Lash disagrees, and if you are "calling bullshit" on her suggestion that the comment might be illegal, then you are "calling bullshit" on the notion that it might incite violence.

It therefore seems germane to address whether you and other liberals should have bullshit called on them.

parados
 
  2  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 09:54 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
If Bashir's comments might incite violence then we should apply the same standard to everyone don't you think?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 09:57 am
@parados,
Quote:
If Bashir's comments might incite violence then we should apply the same standard to everyone don't you think?


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 10:08 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn,

It would be nice if you bothered to put a little thought into your posts. A 2 minute google search would show you why you are wrong (and I already did part of the work, for you and gave you the name of the legal precedent). The search "free speech threats" came up with the answer (along with legal discussion and the relevant Supreme Court case) in milliseconds.

The Supreme Court case is Watts V US (where someone mimed using a rifle to shoot LBJ)

Quote:
In a per curiam opinion, the Court concluded, without hearing arguments, that Watts' statement was "political hyperbole". The Court noted, "The language of the political arena… is often vituperative, abusive, and inexact." Thus, considering the "context, and regarding the expressly conditional nature of the statement and the reaction of the listeners," the Court ruled that Watts' statement was not a true threat.


http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1968/1968_1107_misc

If you care to do a little research to find the actual facts, rather than just making stuff up to support your preconceived position, there is a lot more explanation on various law sites.



0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 10:13 am
@BillRM,
I'm not very happy with the notion that a relatively small group of gadflies can generate a result that is disproportionate to the incident, but this is large difference between this and what occurs in totalitarian states.

The government didn't put Phil on a hiatus (whatever that turns out to mean), his employer did. A&E may have succumbed to the pressure of a small group due to cowardice, principle or cynical economics, but they have not attempted to silence the man.

It is certainly not endearing that these activists will attempt to strong arm people with whom they disagree, but they couldn't do so if they hadn't been given some degree of power and who gave them that power? Americans who will fall all over themselves to avoid any possible suggestion that they are not tolerant of the groups that have designated victim status.

It's been said elswhere that A&E likely ran this series, initally, thinking that it would attract an audience that enjoyed mocking the antics of a family of Louisianna rednecks. I certainly doubt they knew they had latched on to what would prove to be the most popular show in cable because the audience actually likes and admires these people.

Who knows precisely why A&E bent to the presure of gay activists?

They certainly couldn't have been worried about the economics of losing the gay audience of Duck Dynasty. They may have been worried that sponsors might bail, but a few phone calls could have solved that question. It's more likely that they tossed Phil to generate publicity and drive up ratings.

In any case they are going to need to come to a decision on their longer term plan, because the family has made it clear: Without Phil there will be no show
on A&E. I understand that Phil has made some sort of apology which will probably be enough for A&E to say it's water under the bridge and bring him back.

Clearly, Phil's comments (whatever one thinks of them) weren't going to reduce the popularity of the show. For some, I'm sure this is a sign of a flawed society, but it is an indication that the pressure tactics of minority groups don't have to work, and they won't work, in the end, unless there is a majority supporting them. A majority exerting economic pressure is not censorship or totalitarianism, it's the market.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 10:57 am
Quote:
Kids cards for veterans refused; ‘Merry Christmas,’‘God bless you’ not allowed!


http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/12/24/kids-cards-for-veterans-refused-merry-christmasgod-bless-you-not-allowed-90288

I guess "Happy Holidays Homo" would get through.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 11:15 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
The government didn't put Phil on a hiatus (whatever that turns out to mean), his employer did. A&E may have succumbed to the pressure of a small group due to cowardice, principle or cynical economics, but they have not attempted to silence the man.


First of all whatever it was it was not a decision driven by dollars and cents as this had been a great money maker to the network and by doing what they are doing they had piss off around 14 millions of their customers who are loudly declaring a boycott of the network.

The show sponsors had also been declaring support for this show.

The very idea that a small special interest group [GLAAD] can just send someone to a network like A&E and have that network acted against their own self interests I find amazing.

As far as them not trying to silent the man they had yet to released him and his family to go to another of the many networks that would dearly love to have that show.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 11:22 am
Quote:
So far, the controversy understandably has been framed as a fight over free speech. My National Review colleague Mark Steyn writes: "Most Christian opponents of gay marriage oppose gay marriage; they don't oppose the right of gays to advocate it. Yet thug groups like GLAAD increasingly oppose the right of Christians even to argue their corner. It's quicker and more effective to silence them."

I think Steyn has the causation right. The free-speech issues are the inevitable consequence of a venerable argument about what a free society is.

.
.
.

The children of Burke form the philosophical core of what was called the "leave me alone coalition," a broad group of institutions and individuals who rightly, and occasionally wrongly, rejected a top-down effort to impose a one-size-fits-all vision of society. The children of Paine, empowered by their sense of cosmic justice, want all of society's oars to pull as one. And if you don't pull your oar to the beat of their drum, prepare for their wrath.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-goldberg-duck-dynasty-society-20131224,0,3960913.column#ixzz2oPiV28Ha


my brand of socialism needs individuals who freely come together to work on projects, I am adamantly opposed to coercive collective action to dictate the actions or thoughts of individuals.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 11:32 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
A majority exerting economic pressure is not censorship or totalitarianism, it's the market.
the majority who wants to silence the minority should not be able to do is simply because they go through markets. freedom assured and protected by the government does not have a "market decides" exception. I think that duke dude should be able to use the courts to get his job back and to get a financial settlement for harassment. It will not happen because our free speech laws are far too weak.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 24 Dec, 2013 11:44 am
Quote:
Absolutely astonishing’: Over 1.4M join ‘Boycott A&E’ Facebook page

December 20, 2013 by Janeen Capizola 61 Comments
Never underestimate the power of free speech loving, American patriots who use social media.

“Absolutely astonishing” is how the Facebook administrators for the “Boycott A&E Until Phil Robertson Is Put Back On Duck Dynasty” described hitting 1 million “Likes” in less than 24 hours.

The page was established Wednesday to “show support for the freedom of speech of Americans,” and supported by people who agreed: “Unless Phil is reinstated to the show, we refuse to watch the A&E Channel!”

This was important to the administrators because the despicable powers-that-be at A&E aired a “Duck Dynasty” marathon Friday night.

As of this writing, in less than 30 hours, the page has 1.3 million “Likes” and is on track to hit 2 million, possibly by the end of Friday, the administrators wrote.

A fun fact reported by Truth Revolt:

In its first 24 hours, a Facebook page launched with the goal of reinstating Phil Robertson to Duck Dynasty has gathered hundreds of thousands of more supporters than Obamacare had enrollees in that program’s first two months.




0
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 01/22/2025 at 11:45:05