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So Saying That Folks Should Follow Christian Morals is NOW A Firing Offense

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 06:38 pm
@IRFRANK,
Quote:
. But the issue does seem to separate along left/right lines.

it does make you wonder where the pro freedom liberals have disappeared to.....

I saw a headline the other day that this event shows how there is two americas and how one is better than the other (the one that wants to control speech and thought is of course supposed to be superior).....thing is that it was not that long ago that all parties agree on some major points, one of which was that you dont fire a guy unless he does the job poorly, there was no morality litmus tests.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 06:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
Again, remember what Churchill said. That was the new fascists will call themselves anti fascists. Fascists control speech.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 07:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
I don't understand how freedom of speech is even an issue here. His employer suspended him. What would you do if one of your employees said things in the media you thought alienated many of your customers? It could be said that his speech was a poor example of doing his job. He insulted many A & E viewers.

No one took his freedom of speech away.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 08:05 pm
@IRFRANK,
Quote:
I don't understand how freedom of speech is even an issue here. His employer suspended him.
because of assumed collective will.....unlike almost all of you cats I dont give a **** whether the collective works its will through government or if it rather uses some other means, and I do care about where the line is between the individual and the collective, it is the net force of the collective to force the individual to conform that I measure. You seem to forget that I am a Zen Socialist, I dont organize my politics along traditional american lines.

Quote:
No one took his freedom of speech away.
we are always free to be criminals, if by free you mean we can do it, however we can not do it without being harmed. when the individual is harmed for speaking I do not believe that he is free to speak in any reasonable definition of free. I come from the school that has it that individuals should almost never be harmed for words, the only exception that I can come up with right now treason. contracts should be invalidated by lies but that is a bit different than harming for words.
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 08:17 pm
I always knew that I am still young at heart and this proved it as I am in total agreement with these college students.


Quote:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2013/12/23/students-on-duck-dynasty/4178779/

College students weigh in on A&E's decision to suspend Robertson after anti-gay comments.


Support of the LGBT community at college campuses has increased substantially, according to a recent study in the Journal of Community Practice.

But that doesn't mean college students agree with the suspension of Phil Robertson from reality A&E TV show Duck Dynasty.

Robertson has been the center of attention after an interview with GQ magazine where the Duck Dynasty patriarch voiced his opinion on homosexuality.

Related: 'Duck Dynasty' star on hiatus for anti-gay comments

"Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men," he said.

Matt O'Brien, a junior criminal justice major at Boston University, says that although many students in the area accept homosexuality and support gay marriage, some students aren't in agreement with A&E's decision.

O'Brien thinks the Robertsons have just as much of a right to voice their opinions as those from the LGBT community.

"Someone could hate my beliefs, that I support gay marriage," he says. "But it's no different than what (Robertson) was doing. It's just an opinion."

Christina Polowicz, a graduate student at Syracuse University, says while freedom of speech has always been a high priority in the U.S., some issues may be favored more than those rights. Polowicz considers gay marriage to be one of those issues.

She thinks it's important to be accepting of people speaking with a different opinion.

"Phil obviously didn't interview in the most — shall we say — polite manner, but he has every right to his own opinion," she says. "In fact, 45% of the population still agrees with Phil."

Earlier this year, Gallup released a poll saying 52% of Americans would support a law to legalize gay marriage nationwide.

Support varies greatly among different constituencies, including political ideologies and religious beliefs.

Only 27% of Americans 18- to 34-year-old believe gay marriage shouldn't be legalized nationally.

Jody Cofer Randall, LGBT coordinator at Murray State University in Murray, Ky., doesn't agree with Polowicz and O'Brien.

"While the individual certainly has the freedom to express how he feels about the LGBT community and people of color, that does not waive the consequences that can — and should — follow," he says.

Cofer Randall says A&E made a decision that isn't uncommon. He says many TV stations expect their personalities to uphold certain images. He thinks Robertson pushed A&E too far.

O'Brien, on the other hand, thinks A&E should have been aware of the possibility that Robertson would voice his opinion on a political topic.

"For (A&E) to not realize that any good reporter would ask about a subject like this is kind of on them," O'Brien says. "(A&E) knows his personal views already, it's in the show. I think A&E just kind of dropped the ball in not realizing this would eventually happen."

O'Brien believes the consequences wouldn't have been the same if Robertson had says he supports gay marriage, because it's starting to become a cultural norm. Even though O'Brien is okay with that culture, he knows it isn't the same culture the Robertson family is used to.

"(Robertson) was simply stating what his personal and family values are," O'Brien says. "Not hate or discrimination toward anyone."

Cofer Randall says on a personal level, bringing religion in as a weapon against the LGBT community is what has saddened him the most.

Says Cofer Randall: " There are many LGBT people of faith, and to use religion to frame derogatory statements against us must stop."

Lexy Gross is a junior at Murray State University.

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firefly
 
  2  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 08:41 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
I always knew that I am still young at heart and this proved it as I am in total agreement with these college students.

That means you agree with these comments...
Quote:
Jody Cofer Randall, LGBT coordinator at Murray State University in Murray, Ky., doesn't agree with Polowicz and O'Brien.

"While the individual certainly has the freedom to express how he feels about the LGBT community and people of color, that does not waive the consequences that can — and should — follow," he says...

Cofer Randall says on a personal level, bringing religion in as a weapon against the LGBT community is what has saddened him the most.

Says Cofer Randall: " There are many LGBT people of faith, and to use religion to frame derogatory statements against us must stop."
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 08:52 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Says Cofer Randall: " There are many LGBT people of faith, and to use religion to frame derogatory statements against us must stop."


because saying anything bad about anyone is not allowed in our Barney nurtured overly indulged, know nothing but life under snowplowing Shepherds (parents and government) times. modern americans have skins of a grape, and are just as easily bruised.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  3  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 09:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
okay.

I finally hafta call bullshit...

you don't begin to understand zen,

or socialism.

please tell us what you think a "zen socialist" is and does.

besides watch his wife have sex with other men, of course...
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  4  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 09:21 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Why do people take Christianity apart and build Islam up? A rhetorical question.

Let's worry about that when A&E gives a family of bigoted Muslims their own reality show. If you insist on worrying about it now, why don't you start by showing me a post where I build up Islam?
Thomas
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 09:25 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Even the Pope appears to be working against bigotry.

I'm aware of that. But then, the pope is one of the cherry-pickers and creative interpreters I talked about in the second sentence of my post.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 09:41 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
when the individual is harmed for speaking I do not believe that he is free to speak in any reasonable definition of free. I come from the school that has it that individuals should almost never be harmed for words

You have an unrealistic conception of "freedom". You want to voice your opinions without having to experience any consequences for them.

Words can harm and hurt, and people also have to be free to react to your words. It sounds like you want to muzzle and limit how people can react to you. Freedom is a two-way street.

Would you really embrace your conception of freedom if the employees of your restaurant began bad-mouthing you, or your food, to your patrons? Or started telling your customers where they could get better food at lower prices? Those are only words too, but those words might affect your business.

A & E, and MSNBC, and the Food Network, apparently don't want employees that can damage or hurt their business image either, or the image they are trying to project, or who might offend their larger consumer base. Business is business.

I think A & E's problem is that they tried to straddle both sides of the fence on this one. They promote themselves as a "gay-friendly" and gay-supportive network, and their immediate response and "suspension" of duck dude reflected that, but they also hired Robertson knowing exactly what he was like in terms of his views on homosexuality, and the "suspension" was rather meaningless, given the fact the next season has been taped and it's ready to go on the air. So, they've managed to get flack from those on both sides of this issue, by not taking any consistent stance.

I really don't know what all the hullabaloo is about with this one. Duck Dynasty will remain on the air, on A & E, and with Phil Robertson, that was never in doubt, so the fans of that show should be happy, and those who find this duck dude offensive, or just plain uninteresting, don't have to watch the show. I don't think any reality show warrants this much public debate or media attention. This entire situation has been blown way out of proportion. Robertson isn't going to alter public opinion any more than Kim Kardashian or the rest of that clan does. We're ascribing too much importance to these reality TV commodities. As long as they are useful to their networks, they remain, if they become more of a liability, they go. That's true on all the networks. This isn't about "freedom" of anything--it's about attracting viewers and advertising revenue.



coldjoint
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 09:44 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
why don't you start by showing me a post where I build up Islam?

Quote:
Why do people....

Did I single you out? I can tell you that I have not seen you say one thing about Muslims. And you have had the chance. People here seem to have a hands off attitude.
Thomas
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:00 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
I can tell you that I have not seen you say one thing about Muslims.

Trust me, I have, even though I can't be bothered to dig out the posts. The Quran is a sequel to the Bible, and the god character in the Quran is the same unpleasant god of Abraham that we read about in the Bible. Obviously, then, everything I say about Bible-based Christianity is true of Quran-based Islam as well --- including the existence of more enlightened strains where Muslims preserve the humanity of their religion by cherry-picking and creatively interpretatimg their holy book.

Of course, none of this is relevant to this thread, because neither the Bashir affair nor the Robertson affair involves Muslims.
panzade
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:02 pm
@firefly,
Yeah firefly, I gotta agree with you. I live in the South. I have a lot of friends like Phil and i close my ears if they start preaching.

DD is just a show, though it's a show I really enjoy. The women-folk are sweet and nurturing and the kids are polite and kind.
At the end of every show they all get together at the dinner table and thank God for the good life they lead.

In the end, nobody is losing any rights, it's just a TV show.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:06 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
including the existence of more enlightened strains where Muslims


Those are not Muslims.
Thomas
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:17 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
I think A & E's problem is that they tried to straddle both sides of the fence on this one.

That sounds about right to me.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:18 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
including the existence of more enlightened strains where Muslims


Those are not Muslims.

Rolling Eyes

I rest my case.
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:22 pm
@panzade,
Quote:
In the end, nobody is losing any rights, it's just a TV show


Bullshit it is another example of PC running amok and a small minority trying to dictate what people can say in the public square without fear for doing so.

In Russia you can go to prison for supporting gay rights and in the US you can loss your livelihood for daring to expressing opinions that the gay right movement does not care for.

Both are equally evil and if it was not for the first amendment I am sure that the gay rights movement would be trying to get hate speech laws passed to placed people in prison for stating anti gay feelings.

coldjoint
 
  -2  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:28 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
I rest my case.


No, you have put your case out of reach, in your eyes. Believe it or not, some people just might know more about Islam, among other things, than you.

Advocate
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:51 pm
@coldjoint,
It is a matter of capitalism. If the network and sponsors conclude that the character is going to lose money for them, he has to go.
 

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