AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything!

Thank you for owning guns and being a liberal. We need more people like you.

Okay here is the perfect scenario and one that I wouldn't mind if they inacted.

John Q Public goes to purchase his first weapon ever be it a shotgun, rifle or handgun. Once he decides which one he is going to purchase he fills at the BATF form 4473 and enrolls in a class (8 hours going over everything from what a gun is to the local laws regarding the use of deadly force. It would also require the user to fire the gun at a target and hit 50 times in the 7 ring. ) Once the class is over and the checks are complete, the customer is able to leave the store with his weapon. There after, everytime he wishes to purchase the same type of weapon, all he has to do is have the background check. If he wishes to purchase a different type of weapon (like originally purchased a shotgun and now wants a pistol) he would have to go through the class again. This will ensure that people know what they have and what they are using. I am sure this method could be streamlined but it is a basic concept. Oh yeah, after the class the owner would be able to carry the weapon concealed (obviously this would only apply to handgun purchasers) in the state.

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I would agree with that, buit I would add that a record of this purchases should go into a national database acessible to local and national law enforcement, and that should the person be arrested for a felony offence, or have a restraining order or similar charges brought against him, his weapons should be confiscated until either charges are dropped or he is acquitted.

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I learned how to handle a weapon from my father and years of practice. I don't need no stinkin' 8-hour class. Plus I prefer shotguns. So, one shot and no more target. BTW I have never purchased a gun, never needed to. Between my father and his dad we have more than enough.

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I also would advocate registry of fireaerms already extant. Refusal to participate in a safety class should be grounds for denial of liscensure.

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

Okay here is the perfect scenario and one that I wouldn't mind if they inacted.

John Q Public goes to purchase his first weapon ever be it a shotgun, rifle or handgun. Once he decides which one he is going to purchase he fills at the BATF form 4473 and enrolls in a class (8 hours going over everything from what a gun is to the local laws regarding the use of deadly force. It would also require the user to fire the gun at a target and hit 50 times in the 7 ring. ) Once the class is over and the checks are complete, the customer is able to leave the store with his weapon. There after, everytime he wishes to purchase the same type of weapon, all he has to do is have the background check. If he wishes to purchase a different type of weapon (like originally purchased a shotgun and now wants a pistol) he would have to go through the class again. This will ensure that people know what they have and what they are using. I am sure this method could be streamlined but it is a basic concept. Oh yeah, after the class the owner would be able to carry the weapon concealed (obviously this would only apply to handgun purchasers) in the state.

I like your proposal. But most conservatives would have fits with it. And I don't realistically expect to ever get such a proposal past the republican controlled house and senate.

The question posed is about another matter though. Should there be a record of what guns Jon owns somewhere?

Would you prefer that he be able to later go out and buy a gun and kill someone without ever having to worry that the gun be traced back to him?

If you support having such a record, would you agree with it being a central one (to protect from fire, death of the gun shop owner etc. etc. etc.) as long as the record can only be used to look up guns found at the scene of a crime, or to look up people already suspected and detained for probably having comitted a crime.

If you do, there is nothing conservative about your position on gun control. And I'm glad to see you're a lot more reasonable than McGentrix. Welcome to a2k. Very Happy

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Regulations should also cover private gun sales.

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Are you positive about that Centrols? I know many conservative people that don't have a single problem with showing ID and having instant background checks when they purchase firearms. Heck many of them go on to go through more rigorous checks in order to get their Carry Concealed Weapon permit. Granted I don't know every conservative, but the ones I do know don't have a problem.

I still don't like the extra process of having to have a national database. If they enact it I will go along with it (that's the beauty of being a law abiding citizen) but I really don't see where it is going to help solve many crimes. Criminals don't use guns that are registered to them. And whose responsibility is it going to be to update that national database when guns are stolen or lost. Do I have to call a number or are the police going to take care of it? What is going to stop the police from knocking on my door at 3 in the morning if my gun is stolen and I report it (like I am supposed to)?

And yes there are things very conservative about my views on gun control. The majority of democrats don't think I should be able to own half of the guns that I want. They call them "Assault Weapons" simply because they are rifles with a pistol grip and hold more than 10 bullets at a time. There has only been one killing in the last 40 years with a LEGALLY owned machine gun and that was done by a police officer against an informant. So I (being a law abiding citizen) cannot have an AK47? Show me the logic there. Also liberals want to make it where you can only purchase one gun every so many days. What if I come in to a large some of money and want to purchase a new pistol or rifle for every member of my family? I can't even though none of them would go out and kill another person unless provoked.

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Another point. Some of these guns are really expensive. Why would someone buy a $3000 gun to go rob 7-11?

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

Are you positive about that Centrols? I know many conservative people that don't have a single problem with showing ID and having instant background checks when they purchase firearms. Heck many of them go on to go through more rigorous checks in order to get their Carry Concealed Weapon permit. Granted I don't know every conservative, but the ones I do know don't have a problem.

You weren't her when we ahd a spate of posters who took exactly that position. Confused

Quote:

I still don't like the extra process of having to have a national database. If they enact it I will go along with it (that's the beauty of being a law abiding citizen) but I really don't see where it is going to help solve many crimes. Criminals don't use guns that are registered to them. And whose responsibility is it going to be to update that national database when guns are stolen or lost. Do I have to call a number or are the police going to take care of it?

this is a valid question. I personally think this is should be something that should be completed as part of the police report when you report a burglary, etc....

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What is going to stop the police from knocking on my door at 3 in the morning if my gun is stolen and I report it (like I am supposed to)?

This is another ridiculous question. Why would they? Are you simply paranoid?

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Obviously, if you file a police report that your gun was stolen, that'll be entered into the database.

The whole point of the database is to ensure that the records actually exist and can be accessed when needed.

I and most liberals have no problem with restrictions on when it can be accessed.

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cjhsa wrote:

Another point. Some of these guns are really expensive. Why would someone buy a $3000 gun to go rob 7-11?

Why would someone not buy a $3000.00 gun to kill their wife, neighbor, etc...?

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I can't speak for all conservatives. There are many reasonable ones like John McCain.

But I do know that the NRA and the republicans in congress strongly opposed a rule requiring that people atleast present an ID before purchasing guns at a gun show. They blocked the rule from passing. And there wasn't a single conservative other than McCain that really complained much about this.

This is what leads me to believe that few conservatives, the influential ones anyways, are reasonable when it comes to guns.

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Quote:

What is going to stop the police from knocking on my door at 3 in the morning if my gun is stolen and I report it (like I am supposed to)?
This is another ridiculous question. Why would they? Are you simply paranoid?

This goes back to the "Who is going to update the list?" If my gun is stolen and no one updates the list, what is going to stop the cops from knocking on my door and hassling me even though I followed proper procedures.

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

Quote:
What is going to stop the police from knocking on my door at 3 in the morning if my gun is stolen and I report it (like I am supposed to)?
This is another ridiculous question. Why would they? Are you simply paranoid?

This goes back to the "Who is going to update the list?" If my gun is stolen and no one updates the list, what is going to stop the cops from knocking on my door and hassling me even though I followed proper procedures.

In this case, it is your duty as a citizen to comply with and asist the police in their investigation.

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That's standard procedure. When you file a report that a vehicle is stolen, the police automatically update their data base and put out an alert for the stolen vehicle.

If you report that you gun is stolen, they would automatically update the data base and put out an alert for the stolen gun.

What's so hard about that?

It sounds like you're dodging the question saint. Are there any real reasons why such a database shouldn't exist?

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Just ignore hobit, he tends to be overly liberal. :p

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Which I already did when I reported the gun stolen. I should no longer be bothered by it. That is why I am against the national registration. But again. If you enact it, I will go along with it.

With that national regristration, can we have a national carry permit? Where I live I have to go through an 8 hour class covering laws and such, I have to hit 35 out of 48 shots in the 7 ring at various distances, and I have to undergo a local and federal background check. Shouldn't that be good enough to legally carry a firearm in any state in this country?

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Centroles wrote:

You somehow see no problem in the government being able to detain people indefinately without a warrant, presenting any evidence, holding a trial, or at the very least telling the person being detained for years on end why they've been locked up (as the patriot acts allow us to do).

Yet you think that somehow, having to present an ID before buying a gun is a violation of freedom.

Would you feel differently I wonder if the man happened to be a known and wanted islamic fundamentalist terrorist who illegally snuck into the US?

I'm still waiting for your response McGentrix.

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Any real reasons? I just think it is redundant. As for the record keeping of the gun store you mentioned earlier. Do you know what kind of trouble some one can get in to for not keeping accurate records of fire arm sales? It is pretty stiff. Most of the stores that I frequent would rather shoot themselves in the crotch then not fill out that form 4473 and their own records of who purchased the gun.

That goes for law abiding citizens. Again though. If you enact it I will comply because that is what responsible people do.

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What if the record book burns down in a fire, or gets stolen. What if the shop owner dies. What if the shop closes down. Frankly if the local police station is trying to track down a killer or a terrorist, i would want them to be able to do it as fast as possible. I wouldn't want to risk that the shop might be closed for the week, the records burned down in a fire, the guy never bothered to keep a record and a host of other scenarios that would make it impossible or very very slow in linking a gun used in a murder or an act of terrorism to it's owner.

I take it you would have no problem with a national database like the one that I and many liberals propose? One with restriced access.

Make it a rule so that you can only use it to track down a gun found in the scene of a crime or something. Make it accessible only to check the records of a guy you already have enough evidence to have put in custody as a suspect for a crime. Make it a rule that whenever someone reports a gun as stolen, the police are require to update the status of the gun in the database, similar to how the database is updated when a vehicle is stolen. But atleast let there be one, if at the very least as an emergency back up.

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AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything!

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