AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything!

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In another thread, Scrat and I were sparring...and I mentioned that American conservatives have been on the wrong side of just about every major issue this country has ever faced.

During Revolutionary times, the American conservatives were the ones arguing that George III was our liege lord -- and that we owed fealty to him and his crown.

During the Civil War, the American conservatives were the ones arguing that each state should have the right to decide if slavery was okay.

At the time of the two World Wars, the American conservatives were the ones arguing that we ought not to be involved.

American conservatives railed against the right of women and blacks to have the right to vote.

When Social Security and the other safety net programs were proposed, American conservatives opposed them.

MY QUESTION: Have American conservatives ever been on the right side of any issue?

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Not yet. But I think history might prove that they were right about Iraq Very Happy

To address the point below, conservatives (and by this, I mean social and economic conservatives like the ones that frequent free republic) only want a small noninterventionist government when it comes to their money.

They want to pay very little in taxes, if it means that we have to get rid of all social nets and simply let people starve on the streets, then so be it.

But when it comes to individual rights, they have no qualms about a large all controlling government.

When it comes to personal choices such as your sexuality or your decision to marry, they have no problem making the government tell you how to live your life. They even backed sodomy laws that dictate what two consenting adults can do in the privacy of their own bed room for godsake.

When it comes to medicinal marijuana for desperately ill patients in great amount of pain, they have no problem telling you how to live your life.

When it comes to pushing the notion of god down eveyron else's throats, they have no problem telling you how to live your life.

They, like all political groups, are self serving hypocrits.

I just happen to agree with them on a few of their economic policies though. Because sometimes they DO work. Laughing

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Re: AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything

Frank Apisa wrote:

In another thread, Scrat and I were sparring...and I mentioned that American conservatives have been on the wrong side of just about every major issue this country has ever faced.

During Revolutionary times, the American conservatives were the ones arguing that George III was our liege lord -- and that we owed fealty to him and his crown.

During the Civil War, the American conservatives were the ones arguing that each state should have the right to decide if slavery was okay.

At the time of the two World Wars, the American conservatives were the ones arguing that we ought not to be involved.

American conservatives railed against the right of women and blacks to have the right to vote.

When Social Security and the other safety net programs were proposed, American conservatives opposed them.

MY QUESTION: Have American conservatives ever been on the right side of any issue?

I think that you are a little misguided on your topics. Conservatives beleive that the individual has the right for themselves to decide what is best for them. They do not need the government telling them how to raise their children, what protection they are allowed to have or how to think. That is a common liberal thing (it takes a village and all.)

The south was not arguing the point of slavery when the Civil War was started. The entire war was over the states rights to soveriegnty. There were several slave owners in the north in case you didn't know.

We were not attacked in either WWI or WWII. It was not until Japan attacked Pearl and Germany Declared war and posted U Boats in the Gulf of Mexico that we got involved in WWII and the Sinking of the Lusitania brought us in to WWI.

And yes I oppose Social Security and your other "safety net" programs that were introduced by FDR. They were not intended to be a long time fix but a temporary fix. To many liberals think that since Mary Jane is unable to find a job and raise her kids we should give her money. And wait there she goes having another kid. Lets give her MORE money. And wait here comes another one, guess what MORE money. We are not instilling values in her, only paying her to have kids. That is sick and twisted.

Where are you getting your facts for these issues? I should much like to check them out.

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You have a big problem with the polarised choices: Conservative or Liberal.

In a context as long as 220 years, you can hardly group a set of views and condemn them, as if the same people held each one of them.

I'm far from conservative but I think you're trying too hard to condemn, Frank.

Just make sure the world doesn't have to deal with Dubya for another term!!!

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Re: AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything

saintsfanbrian wrote:

I think that you are a little misguided on your topics. Conservatives beleive that the individual has the right for themselves to decide what is best for them. They do not need the government telling them how to raise their children, what protection they are allowed to have or how to think. That is a common liberal thing (it takes a village and all.)

Your argument is blown out of the water by issues like abortion, gay marriage and freedom of speech. Conservatives are opposed to citizens deciding for themselves when they want to have a child, who they want to marry or what they can and cannot say. Conservatives pick and choose when they want individuals to have the right to choose for themselves, such as is the case with guns. There, conservatives want to give people the choice/option of owning and having the ability to carry a firearm.

I used to be a conservative. I look back on myself and my attitudes in those days. Today, I feel like a much more open, honest and accepting person. I won't discourage anyone from being conservative...to each his own. I just know, speaking for myself, I'm a better person now.

saintsfanbrian...It does take a village to raise a child. That's not a liberal concept...it's reality. Everyone who is honest will admit that he/she was influenced by people other than their parents when they were growing up.

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Well, Frank, I think Republicans are more likely wrong than Democrats, though it's often by degrees only. That's why I prefer Green. In my view we need to vote Kerry in to thwart the thugs now running the White House, but it's only a stop gap measure, as the country is sliding the wrong way under both parties.

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Abortion should not be the end all be all. Too many people are using abortion as a form of birth control. As for Gay Marriage, um - why can't a civil union suffice? Freedom of speech - please, it is in the constitution, you have the right (obviously by this internet forum) to say what you want.

I will admit that you do get influenced by more than just your parents but if mom and dad aren't there then you are more likely to go down a bad road. I don't have the facts in front of me right now, but I know that has been accepted in the community as a fact.

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Frank--

Do "right" and "winning" mean the same thing?

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Re: AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything

saintsfanbrian wrote:

. . . the Sinking of the Lusitania brought us in to WWI.

If I have one sacred mission in life, it is to tell people that the sinking of the Lusitania did not cause the US to declare war on Germany. The Lusitania was torpedoed by a German u-boat on May 7, 1915. The US declared war on Germany on April 6, 1917, almost two years later. Instead, it was Germany's resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare that led Wilson to request a declaration of war (see Wilson's speech to Congress -- the Lusitania is never mentioned).

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I can accept that Joe. I think it brought Spain in to WWI though didn't it?

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Re: AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything

Frank Apisa wrote:

MY QUESTION: Have American conservatives ever been on the right side of any issue?

Yes, but you already know this. Thing is, there are differences of opinion on "right".

Was Gulf War 1 "right" by your estimation?

Was Afghanistan "right"?

Conservatives have been in favor of many things that I consider right, but I'm not sure how many of those are things you consider right.

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

I can accept that Joe. I think it brought Spain in to WWI though didn't it?

Uh, that's a joke, right? Please tell me that's a joke.

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Re: AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything

doglover wrote:

Your argument is blown out of the water by issues like abortion, gay marriage and freedom of speech. Conservatives are opposed to citizens deciding for themselves when they want to have a child, who they want to marry or what they can and cannot say.

Your argument is blown out of the water by using a big fat roller where an artists brush would be more apporporiate. I'm a conservative and I have no problems with legal abortion, gay marriage or freedom of speech. I'm not opposed to any of them.

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But then you're not very socially conservative are ya?

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Sorry, been a very long time since history class but yes it was a joke.

Can't one be a social liberal and an economical conservative? Yes they can but I for one am not.

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Oh they definitely can, in fact that's my favorite kind of conservative.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

But then you're not very socially conservative are ya?

No. But I'd label myself on the "Conservative" side of the overall spectrum. It just goes to show how silly these labels are and how much of a joke it is to try and apply them across the board.

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Abortion: Take reponsibilty for your actions. If your old enough to have sex, you're old enough to raise the results. I haven't once seen a conservative try to tell someone they can't have any kids. Personally, I am for legalized abortion, except that the fifth one comes with a free tube ligation.

Homosexual Marriage: It's not solely an issue in the conservative camp. There are plenty of liberal democrats who want to keep a ban on Homosexuals marrying. Personally, I don't care what homosexuals do as long as I don't have to know about it.

Freedom of speech: Huh? Conservatives are against freedom of speech? Maybe hate speech or speech that can incite violence.

Firearms: Is there something wrong with people owning guns? The only thing I see is that it is wrong to use guns in commission of a crime. I refuse to let some idiots derail my rights, or your rights.

If a village tries to raise my children, I may be able to use my guns :wink:
My children are MY responsibilty. I choose what school they go to, I choose the doctor they see, I decide what they can and cannot do until they are old enough to be able to make those decisions for themselves.

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fishin' wrote:

Craven de Kere wrote:
But then you're not very socially conservative are ya?

No. But I'd label myself on the "Conservative" side of the overall spectrum. It just goes to show how silly these labels are and how much of a joke it is to try and apply them across the board.

My point exactly Very Happy

Thanks!

We are a mass of so many different viewpoints on so many issues that a black and white division is meaningless.

KP

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fishin' said:

Quote:

It just goes to show how silly these labels are and how much of a joke it is to try and apply them across the board.

Perhaps then, I am not a radical anarchist atheist, I only thought I was because some conservatives gave me that label on A2k.

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AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...on the wrong side of everything!

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