26
   

Iran nuclear deal signed in Geneva

 
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 11:37 am
@Baldimo,
I disagree somewhat. In a representative form of government, the people elect the person they consider best to do that job and that person is supposed to do the work, research the issue and vote on behalf of them. That does not mean blindly vote their opinion. The majority of people are ignorant of most of the hard issues. They don't have time in their lives to research and understand all the intricacies. That is what we pay our politicians to do. Schumer says he did that and good for him if that is true, but what he is saying shows he is pretty ignorant of the actual agreement. He is spouting AIPAC talking points. At least he is doing it very quietly.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 11:57 am
@engineer,
I guess we will have to disagree on the job of an elected official. I don't see how you would expect any politician you elected to pick up and support the cause of the opposing party. Why elect someone if they are going to vote for the things you are against? If they did that, you wouldn't be voting for them in the next election because they supported and passed laws you don't support.

Would a Dem last long if he voted for GOP policies that his Dem voters were against? Would someone from the GOP last long if he did the same thing for Dem policies? No they wouldn't. You would not vote for someone who passed laws you were against.
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 06:55 pm
@Baldimo,
Once upon a time it wasn't unusual for a bill to be negotiated between parties and to pass with bipartisan support. If you look at all the information and the other party is right on one, you should vote for it. I think Kerry did a great job on this one. I would hope that Republicans would read it with an open mind and consider voting for it. I'm prepared for a straight line vote against it but if not one Republican can see how good a deal this is, I'll be just a bit more jaded about politics.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 07:18 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
I'm prepared for a straight line vote against it but if not one Republican can see how good a deal this is, I'll be just a bit more jaded about politics.


So you give Obama a complete pass for his incompetence and/or lack of effort in politicking ?

I dont think a fair man can honestly get to that position.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 07:29 pm
@hawkeye10,
Then you must not consider me either fair or honest. Were I in that position, I would not need to be stroked to do my job.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 07:41 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Then you must not consider me either fair or honest. Were I in that position, I would not need to be stroked to do my job.


Ideas need to be sold. or if you like argued. If good ideas do not succeed because the people have drawn themselves into two camps and actively resist working together then everyone is to blame for the failure. You should not be blaming only the R's.
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 07:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm not "blaming the R's" but I'm not giving them a pass either. They have been given several closed door briefings and had the chance to ask questions to their hearts' content. I don't think they need someone to hold their hands and give them a puppy to get them to review the deal and make the best decision for the country. For some of them that will be voting against it. I doubt that would be the case for all of them since even Israeli security experts have said it is a good deal. I believe you can hate Obama and still vote for the good of the country. If you can't, you're in the wrong job. You say I'm giving Obama a pass. Aren't you doing the same for Congressional Republicans? Shouldn't they be able to vote, debate, research an issue without the President giving them a foot rub?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 08:04 pm
@engineer,
I think that the COngressional R's are mostly as stupid as the congressional D's . and I think that this deal is the best one we could get so it should be passed.

Quote:
Shouldn't they be able to vote, debate, research an issue without the President giving them a foot rub?

Foot rubs are not his job. Politicking for good acts/laws is however his job, and he does it very poorly, and often he barely attempts to do it at all. We are well familiar with these assholes not fixing problems because they want to bash the other side with the problem at election time, dont act like what I am accusing Obama of is a stretch. TO me this is failure to attempt to do the job, this is looking out for their best interests rather than the nations, and I will not have it.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 08:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
You are saying that President Obama is not campaigning for the agreement because it is in his best interest?

Not sure where your anger is here. You think the deal is a good one, but if Representatives and Senators after getting all the briefings and hearing all the discussions vote against it, it is the President's fault. Other than factually presenting his position and the State Department's position, I don't know what more you think he needs to do. Once you've ruled out foot rubs, the only thing left is pork barrel agreements. Should you have to bribe a Senator to get his vote?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 08:16 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
You are saying that President Obama is not campaigning for the agreement because it is in his best interest?


Of course, we have seen this over and over again where Obama does things poorly because his ego needs the fight.

Quote:
Not sure where your anger is here
Our nation is going down the shitter and Washington being dysfunctional, pretty much no one attempting to do the peoples business unless some crisis allows them no choice, is a big part of why. Congress should get our scorn, and so should Obama. Dont forget to include Obama.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2015 07:05 am
Retired Admirals and Generals pen open letter supporting the Iran deal.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/read-an-open-letter-from-retired-generals-and-admirals-on-the-iran-nuclear-deal/1689/
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2015 05:15 am
@engineer,
Conservative hack Thomas L. Friedman on the deal...

Quote:
To deal with the Iran threat I would not, as Israel’s leader, be pressuring U.S. Jews to go against their own government to try to scuttle the deal — when I have no credible alternative.

This deal sharply reduces Iran’s bomb-making uranium stockpile for 15 years, and pushes Iran’s ability to break out with a nuclear weapon from three months — where it is now — to a year. I’d be very confident that if I can keep Iran one year away from a bomb for 15 years, during that time Israel’s defense technologists will develop many more ways to detect and eliminate any kind of Iranian breakout.

And I’d recognize that if my lobbyists in Washington actually succeeded in getting Congress to scrap this deal, the result wouldn’t be a better deal. It would be no deal, so Iran would remain three months from a bomb — and with no intrusive inspectors, with collapsing sanctions and Israel, not Iran, diplomatically isolated.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2015 07:38 am
@Baldimo,
I would agree with you except there is no reason to not agree with the deal, it is a good deal with no good alternatives.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2015 10:33 am
One Congressman Has The Courage To Admit The True Consequences Of His Vote For The Iraq War

Quote:
A handful of politicians have publicly repented for their 2002 vote to authorize the Iraq War, but few as forcefully as Rep. Walter Jones (R-NC) did last week.

“I did not do what I should have done to read and find out whether Bush was telling us the truth about Saddam being responsible for 9/11 and having weapons of mass destruction,” Jones said during an interview on The Tyler Cralle Show.

“Because I did not do my job then,” Jones continued, “I helped kill 4,000 Americans, and I will go to my grave regretting that.”

According to the Huffington Post, 4,486 American servicemembers died in Operation Iraqi Freedom. When including non-Americans, that death toll rises to nearly 500,000.

Jones was one of 297 congressman and 77 senators who voted to authorize the Iraq War in October 2002. He was such a staunch supporter, initially, that he led the effort to rename french fries as “freedom fries” in congressional cafeterias after France came out in opposition to the war.

However, by 2005, Jones was one of the first GOPers to recant his earlier support for the war, blaming faulty intelligence and demanding that the Bush administration apologize. The North Carolina congressman has been one of the war’s fiercest critics in Congress since.

Jones’ recent comments came as he weighs a congressional resolution to support or oppose the Iranian nuclear deal. The ten-term congressman said he was currently undecided, but drew a link between the Iran vote and the Iraq vote he now regrets, telling Cralle that “I’m gonna make my decision before I go back [from the August recess] but I’m gonna carefully, because I did not do what I should have done” in 2002.

Most politicians are unable to muster the level of candor that Jones showed. For example, GOP presidential hopeful Jeb Bush said in May that, knowing what he knows now, he still would have authorized the Iraq War. A few days later, he reconsidered and declared “I would not have gone into Iraq,” but now argues that the real mistake was Obama’s decision to end the war in 2011.


(Never mind that, Obama withdrew because of the security agreement which called for full withdrawal Bush signed before leaving office. Pact, Approved in Iraq, Sets Time for U.S. Pullout)


engineer
 
  4  
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2015 11:43 am
@revelette2,
Who would have thought that "Freedom Fries" guy would be the one Republican known for giving the deal a true hearing?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Aug, 2015 05:46 am
Hundreds of US rabbis voice support for Iran nuclear deal

Quote:
Washington (AFP) - More than 300 American rabbis wrote members of Congress Monday urging them to support the international nuclear deal with Iran, signalling the US Jewish community is split over the historic but controversial accord.

The religious leaders come from across the spectrum, but hail overwhelmingly from Judaism's Conservative and Reform streams as well as other progressive Jewish movements, a spokesperson said.

"We encourage the members of the Senate and the House of Representatives to endorse this agreement," the 340 rabbis wrote in a letter to Congress distributed by Ameinu, a progressive charitable Jewish organization.

"We are deeply concerned with the impression that the leadership of the American Jewish community is united in opposition to the agreement," the rabbis added.

"We, along with many other Jewish leaders, fully support this historic nuclear accord."

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2015 08:08 am
Pelosi: House Democrats will sustain Obama veto on Iran deal
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 05:45 am
Turns out Netanyahu tried a few times to attack Iran but his cabinet stopped him. More interesting is that despite trying to get this article spiked, the military censors approved it for publication.

Quote:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wanted to strike at Iran’s nuclear facilities in 2010 and 2011, but was prevented from doing so, first by his army chief of staff and then by ministerial colleagues, Netanyahu’s former defense minister Ehud Barak said.


Quote:
Barak expressed outrage that the recordings had been released and tried to prevent them from being aired, Channel 2 noted. The station stressed, however, that the contents of the recordings had been approved for broadcast by the military censor.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 03:08 am
@engineer,
The IDF's top brass are no fools.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 03:48 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

The IDF's top brass are no fools.

The recent work has not been very good. It is not clear if the IDF has some major internal problem or not. I have not spent much time on this, but my sense is that the 2006 go in Lebanon exposed serious problem with the leadership and tactics, and that they have worked to fix that. A paper on the lessons learned is here
mercury.ethz.ch/serviceengine/Files/ISN/93082/...298f.../03.pdf
 

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