Ted Cruze is blaming Reid for holding the American People hostage

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

only if they are fine with a default. votes decide, and they dont have enough to ramrod their will through Congress

Maybe a world wide depression would be worth the cost of getting rid of a tea party control GOP for once and for all.

0 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Define what you mean by "living within our means?" Whose means are you talking about?

The GOP has increased our country's deficit much more than democrats. That's a fact that is easily substantiated by a Google search.

From home.adelphi.edu.

Quote:

Table 2: The Top Ten Years

I have in my hand a copy of tonight's Top Ten list....

2008-2009, at $879 billion (transition from G. W. Bush to B. H. Obama)
2009-2010, at $758 billion (B. H. Obama)
2011-2012, at $556 billion (B. H. Obama)
2010-2011, at $546 billion (B. H. Obama)
NOTE: Obama saved our economy after GW Bush's Great Recession in 2008, and most of the carryover into Obama's tenure were from the Iraq and Afghan wars. Additionally, the 2008 $472 billion deficit is a false reading, because the employment rate was based on the housing market fraud that resulted in the Great Recession.
2007-2008, at $472 billion (G. W. Bush)
1942-1943, at $372 billion (F. D. Roosevelt)
1943-1944, at $365 billion (F. D. Roosevelt)
1944-1945, at $320 billion (transition from F. D. Roosevelt to H. S. Truman)
1990-1991, at $317 billion (G. H. W. Bush)
2003-2004, at $315 billion (G. W. Bush)
All of those figures are inflation-adjusted, of course.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

To me, a default is unthinkable. I hope these imbeciles (on both sides) are smart enough not to want to go down in history that way.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Define what you mean by "living within our means?" Whose means are you talking about?

The GOP has increased our country's deficit much more than democrats. That's a fact that is easily substantiated by a Google search.

From home.adelphi.edu.

Quote:
Table 2: The Top Ten Years

I have in my hand a copy of tonight's Top Ten list....

2008-2009, at $879 billion (transition from G. W. Bush to B. H. Obama)
2009-2010, at $758 billion (B. H. Obama)
2011-2012, at $556 billion (B. H. Obama)
2010-2011, at $546 billion (B. H. Obama)
NOTE: Obama saved our economy after GW Bush's Great Recession in 2008, and most of the carryover into Obama's tenure were from the Iraq and Afghan wars. Additionally, the 2008 $472 billion deficit is a false reading, because the employment rate was based on the housing market fraud that resulted in the Great Recession.
2007-2008, at $472 billion (G. W. Bush)
1942-1943, at $372 billion (F. D. Roosevelt)
1943-1944, at $365 billion (F. D. Roosevelt)
1944-1945, at $320 billion (transition from F. D. Roosevelt to H. S. Truman)
1990-1991, at $317 billion (G. H. W. Bush)
2003-2004, at $315 billion (G. W. Bush)
All of those figures are inflation-adjusted, of course.

Living within our means (as though it weren't obvious) means not spending more than we take in. It's a good thing you aren't one of the negotiators, because the only thing you appear to want to do is to blame the other side, to the exclusion of all other considerations. Even if you're on the right side this time, it is exactly that type of thinking which has put the government in the shape it's in.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

There's always the possibility - and holding your breath will only provide more oxygen for the rest of us! The stock market in most countries will crash with a huge bang that will be heard around the world, and the echo will be long lasting.

0 Replies

@Brandon9000,

You don't understand good government fiscal management.

Basic services such as good education, a functioning infrastructure, safe and available public transportation, many other public services (police and fire departments), and health services, are necessary for any country to compete in the world marketplace.

Sometimes it's necessary to spend more than what's taken in as tax revenues.
WWII is a good example of that. More recently, Obama's spending on bailouts of financial institutions were necessary to keep our's and the world's economy working.

Where did you learn economics?

1 Reply

By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL

Quote:

Republicans have taken heat, but Mr. Obama's own approval ratings are down. His most vulnerable House members are being forced daily to take painful votes against crucial funding, which will be used against them in 2014. Another financial downturn will be remembered in the history books as President Obama's, not as some no-name GOP backbencher's.

Mr. Obama's options are extraordinarily clear. He can end the political pain now, sit down with the GOP for a real deal, get credit for tackling the debt, and clear the decks for the rest of his term. Or he can let this drag on and be pulled, kicking, into talks that yield just enough to buy him a few months. At which point we can all do this again. And then we can do it again.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303382004579127880181348704.html?mod=trending_now_1

but Obama is a petulant little dick, so the outlook is not good.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

They're both at fault, BUT the GOP is still trying to repeal ObamaCare. That's just plain stupid. How many future congress' are going to defeat laws that are already the LAW OF THE LAND approved by congress, the president, and the supreme court?

The House republicans tried 41 times to defeat ObamaCare; a total waste of time and money, because it'll never pass the Senate or Obama's desk.

That's how broken the GOP is! They belong in a mental institution for making to many Americans worry about their jobs, income, and living peacefully without the bullshit going on in Washington DC.

The last poll that shows 60% of American voters want to replace all incumbents should be running around 90%. They give congress a 10% approval rating, so that 60% doesn't mean much.

The so-called government of our country are worse than children in a school yard. Most kids act with more maturity.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Obama is a dick for not giving in to the tantrums of the far right? I think you need to examine things truthfully hawkeye before you call anyone a dick.

Demanding that the President do something or you will close down the government is not the negotiating tactics of someone that is willing to put the country first.

3 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

How many future congress' are going to defeat laws that are already the LAW OF THE LAND approved by congress, the president, and the supreme court?

ALL of them, we change laws/course constantly.

Quote:

making to many Americans worry about their jobs, income, and living peacefully without the bullshit going on in Washington DC.

the jobs/wages situation as been dreadfully bad for a very long time, where have been?

Quote:

That's how broken the GOP is! They belong in a mental institution

we are a nation deeply broken which is going broke financially at stunning speed, I have a feeling that the historians are going to be on the GOP's side when this battle is written about.

0 Replies

@parados,

Quote:

Demanding that the President do something or you will close down the government is not the negotiating tactics of someone that is willing to put the country first.

nor is Obama who is claiming that he will refuse to order the payments made absent approval from congress even though he almost certainly has the power to do so. nor is Obama who is refusing to make any more then extremely minimal efforts to either reach a deal or deal with America's ballooning debt.

**** them all I say, and have for years.

1 Reply

@parados,

That's not the only problem; the GOP wants to give piecemeal gains to take away the American people's right to choose for themselves.

Yes, registering for Obamacare has not gone smoothly, but when there are 40 million uninsured in this country, one must expect that everything will not go smoothly.

Unless you're an unreasonable republican who believes everything should work 100% from the beginning of such a huge program.

Even the Social Security Act of 1935 were not scheduled to begin benefits until 1942 - seven years after the act became law.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

That's not the only problem; the GOP wants to give piecemeal gains to take away the American people's right to choose for themselves.

The ObamaCare legacy is likely to be the ramping up of medical consumption almost all of which will be paid by federal debt and the swapping out of corporate funding for the system (employer) for federal debt funding of the system. This is coming at the time when we need to be massively scaling down our debt, that is to say about the worst time imaginable . I know our memory is short, but in a few years the GOP is likely to be seen as the ones who tried and failed to save us from this self inflicted disaster AKA as the responsible ones.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

That's the reason why I've been decrying the way ObamaCare was established. There could have been many ways to save on cost by implementing the correct legislation into it. I'll admit ObamaCare is sloppy, and there are many ways to improve on it, and I've been detailing what they are from two years ago on several threads having to do with health care.

The GOP has the opportunity to include those improvements rather than trying to repeal it. Otherwise, they have no idea how to replace ObamaCare which is needed in this country. All developed countries have universal health care; that speaks volumes why it's needed in the US.

The US already spends the most on health care.

Some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Demanding that the President do something or you will close down the government is not the negotiating tactics of someone that is willing to put the country first.
nor is Obama who is claiming that he will refuse to order the payments made absent approval from congress even though he almost certainly has the power to do so. nor is Obama who is refusing to make any more then extremely minimal efforts to either reach a deal or deal with America's ballooning debt.

**** them all I say, and have for years.

No, Obama can't make the payments without approval from Congress. Saying he can shows you know nothing about the issue.

Congressional report on shut down and what can remain open.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34680.pdf

Quote:

In 1980 and 1981, however, U.S. Attorney General Benjamin R. Civiletti
issued two opinions that more strictly interpreted the Antideficiency Act in the context of a
funding gap, along with the law’s exceptions.
15
The Attorney General’s opinions stated that, with some exceptions, the head of an agency could
avoid violating the Antideficiency Act only by suspending the agency’s operations until the
enactment of an appropriation. In the absence of
appropriations, exceptions would be allowed
only when there is “some reasonable and articulable connection between the function to be performed and the safety of human life or the protection of property.”

Congress amended 31 U.S.C. §1342 to clarify
that “the term ‘emergencies involving the safety of human life or the protection of property’ does
not include ongoing, regular functions of government the suspension of which would not
imminently threaten the safety of human life or the protection of property.

So in other words the ONLY things Obama can authorize spending on that aren't appropriated are ones that threaten imminent safety of human life or protection of property.

2 Replies

@parados,

the legality of paying debts is Constitution based, that is supersedes other laws, I forget the amendment number.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

It would had been a lot cheaper to go to a single payer plan IE medicare for everyone.

Paid for by a combination of a sir taxes on the income tax combine with a business tax.

Businesses that now provide health care would come out ahead and those who do not now do so would at last being paying their "fair" share.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

That's true; one of the many improvements that could have kept the cost down. However several countries have multiple choices on where they can purchase different levels of coverage.

With the regulations in place that a maximum amount be spent on health care or refunds must be made is one of the good rules of ObamaCare.

0 Replies

@parados,

Quote:

ent do something or you will close down the government is not the negotiating tactics of someone that is willing to put the country first.

Could not agree more! Last year Obama gave in and bargained over lifting the debt ceiling...and so they thought it would be a cinch to get him to give in again; this time they returned even more emboldened, audaciously asking the President to repeal his Affordable Health Care! Their strategy, shut down the government until Obama gives in!!!! The Democrats were united with the President and Harry Reid, senate majority leader, was in his element as a tower of strength. If Obama had weakened, his presidency would have been impaired for the duration.....the GOP would have shown no mercy and all future Ted Cruzs would use this tactic to get the Democratic president to do what they wanted done. No! Obama had to nip that poorly planned strategy of the Tea Party in the bud. Now the GOP has dropped the ball and is floundering.

The Koch brothers' letter to congress made it loud and clear they did not want Obama Health Care Act tied to the debt ceiling. OK, no further talk about the Obama Affordable Health Care act. Now, they, the Ted Cruz extremists are trying to save a little dignity and honor, one way or another, if they can come away with a little something because they know damn well they'd better not let the debt ceiling default or else the Koch brothers will all over them like white on rice.

It also did not help that the public by and large blame the Republican Party; their extremely low poll numbers broke a record in recorded history of polls for the GOP!

0 Replies

@parados,

Quote:

No, Obama can't make the payments without approval from Congress. Saying he can shows you know nothing about the issue.

Quote:

The Fourteenth Amendment's provision on the public debt authorizes President Barack Obama to take "emergency" steps of his own in the event of a default, if the debt ceiling is not raised. That's the view of Princeton University History Professor Sean Wilentz, anyway.

In a New York Times op-ed Wilentz concedes that the amendment itself "does not give the president the power to raise the debt limit summarily." But the president could, "once a default occurred, use his emergency powers to end it and save the nation and the world from catastrophe."

Wilentz is vague on just what those emergency powers might be. And he acknowledges that unilateral action by President Obama could trigger an impeachment movement. "But the president would have done his constitutional duty, saved the country and undoubtedly earned the gratitude of a relieved people. Then the people would find the opportunity to punish those who vandalized the Constitution and brought the country to the brink of ruin."

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/8332-obama-can-use-emergency-powers-to-mitigate-default-pain-historian-says

2 Replies

Ted Cruze is blaming Reid for holding the American People hostage

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know