The moral differences between the holocaust and bombing Japan

@reasoning logic,

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Are you sure your not talking about ethnic cleansing?

"Ethnic cleansing" is genocide.

Your thinking is very muddled, on this entire topic.

What went on at Babi Yar was genocide. The bombing of Japanese cities was an act of war--the targets were cities in a country whose government was engaged in active warfare with the government of the United States.

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@firefly,

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"Ethnic cleansing" is genocide.

Well sure it is but what comes to my mind when I think of the Holocaust is ethnic cleansing. The bombing of Japan does not seem like ethnic cleansing but rather a genocide committed against a nation.

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@reasoning logic,

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Well sure it is but what comes to my mind when I think of the Holocaust is ethnic cleansing. The bombing of Japan does not seem like ethnic cleansing but rather a genocide committed against a nation.

That's because your thinking is muddled.

We were at war with Japan, as a nation, we weren't trying to exterminate all Japanese people, regardless of where they were living, as was the case with the Holocaust, which did try to annihilate all Jews, wherever they could, regardless of whether they lived in Germany or elsewhere.

If you see the bombings of Japanese cities solely as acts of racist genocide, your thinking is too tangled for me to be able to help you out.

Because disparate acts may both be morally reprehensible does not make them the same or equivalent.

Valid arguments can be made to justify the bombing of Japanese cities, during a time of active warfare, whether or not you agree with those arguments.

Can you come up with any valid rational argument to justify the Holocaust, and the genocide of the Jews, as it went on both inside and outside of Germany?

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
"Ethnic cleansing" is genocide.

Well sure it is but what comes to my mind when I think of the Holocaust is ethnic cleansing. The bombing of Japan does not seem like ethnic cleansing but rather a genocide committed against a nation.

Do you ever re-read what you have written? The above makes absolutely no sense whatever. First you admit that "ethic cleansing" and "genocide" are synonimous; then you make a meaningless differentiaton between them. You are a case of arrested mental development.

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@firefly,

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If you see the bombings of Japanese cities solely as acts of racist genocide, your thinking is too tangled for me to be able to help you out.

You brought up race not me.

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Valid arguments can be made to justify the bombing of Japanese cities, during a time of active warfare, whether or not you agree with those arguments.

Go to a Japanese college and start this debate and let me know how it goes and if they think your arguments are valid.

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Can you come up with any valid rational argument to justify the Holocaust, and the genocide of the Jews, as it went on both inside and outside of Germany?

No and I am surprised you would even ask such a question but maybe I shouldn't be.

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@Lustig Andrei,

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First you admit that "ethic cleansing" and "genocide" are synonimous; then you make a meaningless differentiaton between them. You are a case of arrested mental development.

Did I say they were synonymous or do you think that they are synonymous?

Do you think there can be a genocide of any type without ethnic cleansing?

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@reasoning logic,

You obviously prefer to keep your thinking muddled, and so over-generalized that your conclusions are meaningless.

Unfortunately, that prevents you from clearly examining and understanding and appreciating differences.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be a very happy fellow.

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@reasoning logic,

You didn't answer my question. "Do you ever re-read what you've written?" You're the one who admitted that firefly is right, that genocide and ethnic cleansing are the same thing. Answer to your second question: Genocide IS ethnic cleansing. What in hell are you trying to say? You're getting less and less articulate as this thread goes on.

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@Lustig Andrei,

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You're the one who admitted that firefly is right, that genocide and ethnic cleansing are the same thing.

No I did not say they are the same thing but ethnic cleansing is genocide in many cases.

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Answer to your second question: Genocide IS ethnic cleansing

NO genocide does not = ethnic cleansing, genocide does not have to target a single ethnic group of people.

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@reasoning logic,

You're even dumber than I realized. Of course genocide has to target a single group of people, usually based on their ethnicity, though sometimes on other factors e.g. religious affiliation. The word 'genocide', if you take its component parts and anlyze them,means death of a particular people.

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@Lustig Andrei,

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Of course genocide has to target a single group of people, usually based on their ethnicity, though sometimes on other factors e.g. religious affiliation.

I guess in a broad sense you can categorize it that way if you lump everyone together from one nation and call them all of the same ethnic back ground but it is usual thought that nations have a wide variety of ethnic groups made up of immigrants or their descendants.

If you were ethnic cleansing wouldn't you target the same ethnic group of people at your own homeland?

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

I guess in a broad sense you can categorize it that way if you lump everyone together from one nation and call them all of the same ethnic back ground but it is usual thought that nations have a wide variety of ethnic groups made up of immigrants or their descendants.

Right. And when a nation tries to eliminate and/or destroy one of those ethnic groups, that is genocide.

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

If you were ethnic cleansing wouldn't you target the same ethnic group of people at your own homeland?

Of course. And you would be committing genocide. In most cases the two words are interchangeable.

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@Lustig Andrei,

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In most cases the two words are interchangeable.

But not always? Are things that are synonymous only synonymous sometimes?

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@reasoning logic,

There are always exceptions to every single rule, including this one. Grow up.

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@Lustig Andrei,

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There are always exceptions to every single rule, including this one. Grow up.

Learn something new old timer. Wink

A difference that separates ethnic cleansing from genocide lies in the fact that ethnic cleansing can be forced migrations or both forced migrations and mass murders whereas genocide strictly involves mass murders.

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@JTT,

Putting aside the 20th Century atrocities of communist Russia and China, why only focus on the 2oth Century?

As week, I would suggest that governments that trumpet quite loudly to the world that they are paradises for the common man were, in the least, extremely hyprocritical consider they murdered tens of millions of their common man citizens. This seems to escape you.

As for hypocrisy, why spare European nations that butchered and enslaved the natives of the lands they colonized in the name of bringing them God and civilization? Oh yeah, apparently there is statute of limitations on such hypocrisy, but then 20th century Indians, Alergerians, Vietnamese et al might be surprised to learn that what they endured falls of the JTT grid.

I think there are probably only a few people in this forum who will disagree with you about the fact that the US government and it's people have been responsible for atrocities over the length of it's existence. It's certainly nothing of which to be proud, but considering there probably isn't a single nation on earth that isn't proportionately guilty in the same way, it makes sense to consider the flip side of the coin in judging a nation and it's people. How much good have they done?

As you have been told hundreds of times, your one note song is so repetitive it is irritating.

Perhaps one day we'll be presented with a JTT who hasn't diffused his intelligence with an obsessively narrow focus.

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@reasoning logic,

Well, clearly I am an American, but I don't accept your apparent assumption that Americans are a group of sick people and in the alternative that "we" are any sicker than any other group. Surely you don't believe us sicker than Israelis.

Your comment held a lot more promise (but not all that much more) when it seemed you might mean humanity as the sick "we." I can sympathize a lot more with a despairing misanthrope than a clueless Anti-American.

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@reasoning logic,

You've tried to equate Hiroshima and the Holocaust. Perhaps it wasn't because of anti-Semitism, in which case I've given you too much credit.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

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Putting aside the 20th Century atrocities of communist Russia and China, why only focus on the 2oth Century?

You have never heard him carry on about other times in history? Where have you been?

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As for hypocrisy, why spare European nations that butchered and enslaved the natives of the lands they colonized in the name of bringing them God and civilization?

Has he done this?

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I think there are probably only a few people in this forum who will disagree with you about the fact that the US government and it's people have been responsible for atrocities over the length of it's existence.

I think there is a hell of a lot more than a few I would say about 98%

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The moral differences between the holocaust and bombing Japan

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