The EU's Vicious Economic Sanctions on Israel

@izzythepush,

Actually, Russia is decades away from qualifying for EU membership.
Therefore, the EU and Russia only have "common spaces" agreement, i.e. Common Economic Space, Common Space of Freedom, Security and Justice, Common Space of External Security, Common Space of Research and Education.
Trade between Russia and the EU-countries is regulated by the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement between the EU and Russia.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

oralloy wrote:
I referred to actual history, backed by evidence and supported by the scientists of the world.

Which evidence?

That the Israelis were there at the dawn of the Iron Age is confirmed by Egyptian hieroglyphs referring to them by name.

It is further confirmed by more Egyptian records, which say there was a deity named YHW in the region.

Textual analysis indicates that the most ancient part of the Bible is the part about slaves escaping across the Red Sea, and dates it to right around the dawn of the Iron Age.

InfraBlue wrote:

Which "scientists of the world"?

All of them.

InfraBlue wrote:

No, you're trying to pass off mythology as history which lumps you with the fools that think that the Holocaust was Yaweh's punishment of the "Jews" for not being pious enough.

No, I'm referring to actual history, backed by evidence. And that puts me on the side of the scientists.

I don't tend to blame victims for crimes that are perpetrated against them.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

No, I'm referring to actual history, backed by evidence.

You don't do "evidence", EVER, Oralboy. I'm surprised you can even spell it.

Point to one piece of "evidence" in any of your posts.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Point to one piece of "evidence" in any of your posts.

How about three pieces of evidence:

That the Israelis were there at the dawn of the Iron Age is confirmed by Egyptian hieroglyphs referring to them by name.

It is further confirmed by more Egyptian records, which say there was a deity named YHW in the region.

Textual analysis indicates that the most ancient part of the Bible is the part about slaves escaping across the Red Sea, and dates it to right around the dawn of the Iron Age.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

If you were honest, you might realise that the fact you have no friends and suffer prejudice day to day has a lot to do with your personality and absolutely nothing to do with your religion/ethnicity.

Jews are no different from the rest of the population. British Jews look British, Russian Jews look Russian and Ethiopian Jews look like Ethiopians. It's clear they've got more in common with their neighbours than a supposed connection to a place thousands of years ago.

You do not know NYC, so please my British forum acquaintance, shut-up! My school peers often left NYC decades ago. What's left are alienated demographics, with a leaning to ethnocentrism, in my opinion. Actually, very few "secular" of my demographic remaining. So, not being a member of one of the balkanized demographics, I just live here with a few acquaintanceships. Not a problem, being an introvert. And, in my opinion, a possible good comparison is: High Anglicans are as alienated to Catholics in England, as Catholics in NYC are alienated to Jews. Maybe I should add emphasis by substituting Presbyterians in Northern Island, instead of High Anglicans?Just my opinion, but a good yardstick, I believe.

In my opinion, Russian Jews do not look Russian, from my grandparents generation,before the intermarriages that the Soviet Union may have brought into vogue. They look like the "mix" they are, in my opinion. Same with other Jews of different nationalities. Few Jews have the chiseled features of a Clint Eastwood, or the looks of a young Cybil Shepard. You see, while Jews can be blond, blue-eyed, tall, straight hair, etc., etc. there is often not a complete "package" of the Nordic looks that do not set them apart as being a "mix" over centuries, in my opinion. An exception now and then; however, by and large something sets them apart - perhaps, somewhat shorter; perhaps, somewhat less fair skinned; perhaps, blond hair, but curly; perhaps, blue eyes, but set a little too close for blue eyes; or perhaps, the proverbial nose not exactly straight. At best, many Jews are considered good-looking Mediterraneans when they are not thought of as "Jewish," in my opinion. Or worst yet, they may be taken for some Southern European that is Catholic. How demeaning, in my opinion, in an Anglo-Saxon country (based on the dominant culture), like the U.S.

But, you seem to be equating ethnicity with the "right" to live somewhere? Perhaps, the colonial injustices of European nations make Europeans now believe we must all live in lands alotted to us back in the Middle Ages? Not so, dear pushytheizz. [Foofie does have the opinion that Izzythepush "izz pushy the" way someone from his small island, off the coast of continental Europe, would likely not be, in his offering opinions that have little to do with the smallish role his island has today in world affairs.]

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@oralloy,

That's not evidence, Oralboy, that's you spreading your lies again. Better look up 'evidence' in a dictionary.

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@Foofie,

Considering you live the reclusive life of a hermit in one of the world's most vibrant cities, your role in world affairs seems particularly miniscule.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

. . . the Israelis were there at the dawn of the Iron Age is confirmed by Egyptian hieroglyphs referring to them by name.

Oy vey.

Who are referred to by name in those hieroglyphs are the Israelites, not Israelis. The Israelites were indigenous to Palestine. The Israelis, for the most part, have their origins in other parts of the world.

Quote:

It is further confirmed by more Egyptian records, which say there was a deity named YHW in the region.

This is a non sequitur. One thing is the deity named YHWH whose worship originated in Palestine, another thing altogether is the Israeli Jews the vast majority of which have origins in other parts of the world.

Quote:

Textual analysis indicates that the most ancient part of the Bible is the part about slaves escaping across the Red Sea, and dates it to right around the dawn of the Iron Age.

This is another non sequitur. The Exodus myth in the Bible is one thing, quite another is the population in Israel which by and large has origins in other parts of the world.

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@InfraBlue,

The pyramids weren't built by slaves either.

Quote:

Egypt's chief archaeologist said new tombs found in Giza support the view that the Great Pyramids were built by free workers and not slaves, as widely believed.

Zahi Hawass said the discovery dismissed the popular perception as depicted by Hollywood of the pyramids being the fruit of the labour of slaves toiling away in the desert.

"These tombs were built beside the king's pyramid, which indicates that these people were not by any means slaves," he said on Sunday. "If they were slaves, they would not have been able to build their tombs beside their king's."

He said the collection of workers' tombs, some of which were first detected in the 1990s, were among the most significant finds in the 20th and 21st centuries. They belonged to workers who built the pyramids of Khufu and Khafre.

Mr Hawass had earlier found graffiti on the walls from workers calling themselves "friends of Khufu" - another sign that they were not slaves.

The tombs, on the Giza plateau on the western edge of Cairo, are 4,510 years old and lie at the entrance of a half-mile-long necropolis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/6962860/Pyramids-not-built-by-slaves.html

You've got to hand it to Oralboy, it's quite something to be wrong about absolutely everything. Obama should give him a job as an advisor, whatever he says do the exact opposite. That's a formula for success.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

The pyramids weren't built by slaves either.

That seems odd for such a benevolent king to exist, Iz. Did they find the employment records? Smile

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@izzythepush,

Gee, it is for sure that Egypt's archaeologists would never lie. His statel;ment is laughable, and that is to be kind.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

That's not evidence, Oralboy, that's you spreading your lies again. Better look up 'evidence' in a dictionary.

As always, you'd be a lot more pleasant if you did away with the name-calling.

And I don't know why you guys deny science like that. All it does is give me an easy win and make you guys look bad.

I don't even need to expend any effort. All I need to do is go stand next to the scientists and say "I'm with them."

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

oralloy wrote:
. . . the Israelis were there at the dawn of the Iron Age is confirmed by Egyptian hieroglyphs referring to them by name.

Oy vey.
Who are referred to by name in those hieroglyphs are the Israelites, not Israelis.

Same thing.

InfraBlue wrote:

The Israelites were indigenous to Palestine.

Specifically, they are indigenous to the West Bank.

InfraBlue wrote:

The Israelis, for the most part, have their origins in other parts of the world.

Nope. The Israelis originate from the West Bank.

InfraBlue wrote:

oralloy wrote:
It is further confirmed by more Egyptian records, which say there was a deity named YHW in the region.

This is a non sequitur.

No, showing the worship of YHW at the dawn of the Iron Age, right in the exact region where the escaped slaves say they converted to the worship of YHW at the dawn of the Iron Age, is evidence that that particular story about their origin has some truth to it.

InfraBlue wrote:

One thing is the deity named YHWH whose worship originated in Palestine, another thing altogether is the Israeli Jews the vast majority of which have origins in other parts of the world.

The Israeli Jews have their origins in the West Bank.

InfraBlue wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Textual analysis indicates that the most ancient part of the Bible is the part about slaves escaping across the Red Sea, and dates it to right around the dawn of the Iron Age.

This is another non sequitur.

No. The fact that "part of the Bible dealing with events at the dawn of the Iron Age" actually dates to the time that it describes, is further evidence that the Israelis really did arise in that place at that time.

InfraBlue wrote:

The Exodus myth in the Bible is one thing,

Hardly a myth. There isn't a lot of evidence on the matter, but there is some, and that evidence is consistent with a small group of slaves escaping from Egypt, converting to a new religion on their way home, and that religion proving popular and eventually becoming the identity of the people who were living in the West Bank area.

InfraBlue wrote:

quite another is the population in Israel which by and large has origins in other parts of the world.

The Israeli people have their origins in the West Bank.

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@Advocate,

You really prefer to swallow dogma rather than look at scientific evidence. It's not just Egyptian archeologists who say that the pyramids were not built by slaves, it established orthodoxy. Terry Jones, he of Monty Python fame, did a good hour long special on it. It's on you tube if you want to check. He found some old work rotas, one of the workers took a day off to brew beer, hardly the actions of a slave.

Once the harvest was in and before the Nile flooded there's wasn't much they could do on the land, so they all chipped in.

You really are wilfully blind, you've been presented with the truth time and time again, but you choose to look the other way. The truth is, that most of The Bible really is a load of old bollocks, particularly the Old Testament. It might have a few good stories, and the odd bit of moral advice, but as a source of history it's about as reliable as the Beano Annual.

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@oralloy,

Just more foot stomping and no evidence, Oralboy.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Considering you live the reclusive life of a hermit in one of the world's most vibrant cities, your role in world affairs seems particularly miniscule.

First you made a guess that I go to cocktail parties, in a prior post, now you correlate introvertedness to being a hermit. You have never told the forum how educated you truly are. However, in my opinion, when you get into an adversarial discussion with Setanta, you are out of your league. You should discuss thread topics with your peers.

And, you dismiss my entire post, but find one little point that you think disqualifies everything else said. Please be quiet. Again in my opinion, you do not understand world affairs, since you cannot empathize with those that hold an opinion differing from yours, in my opinion. You do not give credence to another's viewpoint. A person that can debate, gives credence to the other person's viewpoint, but then explains the fallacy of that viewpoint. You do not do that. Why? I do not know, but I do think you think Jewish history started in 1967. [Foofie has often wondered if Britain would have been better off if Chamberlain sued for peace, and Brits would have the benefit today of being under the hegemony of Berlin. Naturally, the U.S. would have still won the war, but would have allowed Germany to have its lebensraum in Britain, in Foofie's hypothetical thought.]

Let me emphasize my earlier point, Setanta is more intelligent than you, in my opinion, so learn who to lock intellectual horns with, so you won't appear as just another Brit living in the past glory of the British Empire. You might not know that if it wasn't for the Irish-Americans, NYC would not be the world capital it is today. They built this city, ran this city, and made it what it is. For the first half of the 20th century, one-third of NYC was populated by Irish, or Irish-Americans. Certainly no British city can claim that, and then wind up a world capital.

P.S.: Calling Setanta "Malvolio" is just so childish, in my opinion, and possibly in the mind of quite a few other posters. You really react with hostility when you meet an intellectual challenge, it appears to me.

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@oralloy,

uh-huh.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Certainly no British city can claim that, and then wind up a world capital.

Liverpool has a lot of Paddies and was European Capital Of Culture in 2008. New York can never match that.

It ill becomes you to lecture Izzy about anything, because you are a ignorant tosspot.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

P.S.: Calling Setanta "Malvolio" is just so childish, in my opinion, and possibly in the mind of quite a few other posters.

Not this poster. Witty and apt.

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@Foofie,

I know you think you deserve a point by point response to your post, and I really appreciate the time and effort you've spent, which can't be easy given your hectic social life. However, as you quite rightly pointed out I ain't so smart, so what Contrex said.

2 Replies

The EU's Vicious Economic Sanctions on Israel

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