40
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 02:51 pm
@revelette,
True. But even the "best" laws don't automatically set aside an asylum in a foreign country.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 02:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I'd like to see those who broke the laws first by ignoring our Constitution on the right to privacy, charged with a crime followed by a trial.

Then, we can have Snowden charged and taken to trial. This sequence is the only one that makes any sense.


I'd like the person who has actually been charged with a crime to have the benefit of a fair trial...rather than engage in some nebulous indictment of someone, somewhere, who supposedly broke some law.

Snowden has been charged with some serious crimes. The charges are already out there.

He deserves a fair trial.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 02:55 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

True. But even the "best" laws don't automatically set aside an asylum in a foreign country.


You are absolutely correct, Walter. And for as long as he has asylum in Russia...he apparently is untouchable.

If he can get to another country and is granted asylum there...he has at least the presumption of being untouchable...although nations often negotiate things like this.

If he is returned to the United States...I hope he gets a fair trial.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 02:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
We've read your meme, Frank. Surely an renowned editorial writer like you can do better than just repeating right wing memes .
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 02:59 pm
@revelette,
Now that is truly hilarious, Rev. Who knew you were a comedy writer.

You guys just love to include those little americanisms - they just make a body feel all gooey inside.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
But the war criminals of the Bush gang are exempt, right, Frank, right Rev?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, Get with the program; those in intelligence and our government knows who the culprits are/were. The honchos of all those departments who knew and did nothing are also accessory to the crime.

If nobody is willing to take responsibility, those departments shouldn't exist or get funded.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,

It's always about us, right, CI? Millions are murdered, kids are born deformed and riddled with cancer all because of your war criminal governments and what are you worried about?


See:

http://able2know.org/topic/230396-1
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
"accessories to the crime"

Smile
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank, Get with the program; those in intelligence and our government knows who the culprits are/were. The honchos of all those departments who knew and did nothing are also accessory to the crime.

If nobody is willing to take responsibility, those departments shouldn't exist or get funded.


I AM with the program, ci.

We have a significant difference of opinion on this. I disagree with your take on it completely.

Allowing each individual who works for the government...especially those in sensitive positions...to arbitrarily decide that classified document SHOULD be stolen and made public...is a wish for anarchy.

Edward Snowden has been formally charged with stealing classified documents and releasing them to unauthorized parties. That is, in my opinion, a very serious charge...and I think he should get a fair trial to see if the government can prove that he did in fact steal classified documents and release them to unauthorized individuals.

I oppose anarchy, ci.



Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I think that the USA have the Whistleblower Protection Act ...

... but I know: you're saying, Frank,he isn't a whistleblower.
(And as far as I understand it, it has been said that Snowden could claim whistleblower protection only if he took his concerns to the NSA’s inspector general or to a member of one of the congressional intelligence committees with the proper security clearances.)
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:25 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I think that the USA have the Whistleblower Protection Act ...

... but I know: you're saying, Frank,he isn't a whistleblower.


There definitely is a Whistleblower Protection Act, Walter...and I am not saying Snowden is or is not a Whistleblower under the definitions contained in that act.

I have no idea...I am not a lawyer.

But one way to find out is for him to return to the United States...and get some lawyers working to invoke any provisions that may apply.

If the provisions do not apply...I would want him to get a fair trial.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You,
Quote:
Allowing each individual who works for the government...especially those in sensitive positions...to arbitrarily decide that classified document SHOULD be stolen and made public...is a wish for anarchy.


You're speaking only about your own interpretations concerning this case/issue.

It should not have been necessary for anyone to reveal that our government is breaking the laws of this land. It should be able to police itself; that's the reason we have three branches of government. They are not doing their jobs.

Most Americans should know what protections we have under our Constitution. Many don't care or there are people like you who think our government can't do no wrong when it applies to our Constitution.

Trust me; you're not with the program.

It takes a dedicated citizen to reveal what laws our government has broken; otherwise it's really not a democratic government for and by the people.

I don't trust our government. They have started illegal wars by lies and innuendos that have killed untold tens of thousands of innocent people.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It takes a dedicated citizen to reveal what laws our government has broken; otherwise it's really not a democratic government for and by the people.

++++++++++++++++++

And so many of you are such abject failures. "For and by the people", what a sick ******* joke that is!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You,
Quote:
Allowing each individual who works for the government...especially those in sensitive positions...to arbitrarily decide that classified document SHOULD be stolen and made public...is a wish for anarchy.


You're speaking only about your own interpretations concerning this case/issue.

It should not have been necessary for anyone to reveal that our government is breaking the laws of this land. It should be able to police itself; that's the reason we have three branches of government. They are not doing their jobs.

Most Americans should know what protections we have under our Constitution. Many don't care or there are people like you who think our government can't do no wrong when it applies to our Constitution.

Trust me; you're not with the program.

It takes a dedicated citizen to reveal what laws our government has broken; otherwise it's really not a democratic government for and by the people.

I don't trust our government. They have started illegal wars by lies and innuendos that have killed untold tens of thousands of innocent people.


I am with the program, ci. And I do not have the intense distrust of our government that people like you Timothy McVeigh, the Uni-bomber, and some other extremists have.

Trust it...don't trust it as you see fit.

I opt for not courting anarchy...which is what I think some people are doing right now.

I imagine our enemies are laughing their butts off at us...and shaking their heads.

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:52 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I imagine our enemies are laughing their butts off at us...and shaking their heads.

++++++++++++++

They most certainly are, Frank. They're laughing at how easy the sheeple are played. How quickly the sheeple begin baaaaaaing about themselves, how ignorant the sheeple are about their own country.

They laugh at how the land of the brave and the home of the free can so quickly turn into the sheeple.

The list of hilarious things the sheeple do is long.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:57 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I am with the program, ci. And I do not have the intense distrust of our government that people like you Timothy McVeigh, the Uni-bomber, and some other extremists have.

************************

A page right out of IzzytheLiar.

That's our Frank, the editorial writer.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 03:57 pm
From the NYT.
Quote:
Despite Snowden's critics' claims, the acid debate we're now engaged in over privacy and government surveillance as a result of his revelations and the media exposés that have derived from them would not have occurred without him. Those who argue he could have achieved a better result by going through channels are clueless to how such matters work in real life. How is that exactly? Law-breaking whistleblowers are pursued while law-breaking officials are left untouched or promoted.

No police state springs forth fully grown. It is built, piece by piece, aided by citizens who ignore the warning signs and officials who crush the warners. Snowden and the journalists who have followed up on his leaks have warned us. The worst response we can make is plug our ears to all they have said and let the crushers do their work.

These diarists have explored the Times editorial:

• BREAKING: NYTimes: Snowden Deserves Clemency, Clapper Lied to Congress by Tasini.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 04:02 pm
The New York Times should be ashamed of itself for such a short-sighted perspective on this situation.

It is a much more nuanced situation than they are portraying...and I certainly hope that President Obama does NOT grant anything...except the right to a fair and speedy trial.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jan, 2014 04:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
And I do not have the intense distrust of our government that people like you Timothy McVeigh, the Uni-bomber, and some other extremists have.


Or a large percent of the founding fathers and the people of that time period that being the reason that the constitution would not had been pass without the promise of the bills of rights and even with that promise is was a close thing in both Virginia and New York taking the full out lobbying of Hamilton in New York and Jefferson in Virginia.
0 Replies
 
 

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