What are your pet peeves re English usage?

Here Goes.

I am from the DEEP South, so we have a large selection--

Come See.

Mammanthem (One Word)

Hot Water Heater

Cut out the Light (Turn it off)

if'n

fount

(Just for Laughs--don't get "all upset")

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JTT wrote:

McTag wrote:

No, really. I'm not as smart as I look.

I'll be a good boy though, and go over the relevant posts again.
My general feeling about all this is, that it's an angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin argument. Or over-analysis to the nth degree. With a few straw men thrown in for good measure. Storm in a teacup. Mixed metaphors.

That's the whole point, McTag. You CHIDE me for my lack of manners and then you have the temerity to malign others language when you don't have a linguistic/scientific leg to stand on. You're more than happy just to repeat old wives tales.

I see your grasp hasn't extended to actually "go[ing] over the relevant posts again" and maybe collecting something in the way of facts to support your peeves.

Again with the personal attacks. I don't think I've personally attacked anyone on this thread. There are other threads for that. This is supposed to be a fun thread, as the title hints at. (I sometimes end a sentence with a preposition, too.)
Even a bit of gentle self-deprecation was turned against me, a mean trick.

I don't recognise my "having the temerity to malign others' language" except in the context of a bit of fun on the thread.
Additionally, I don't think "you don't have a linguistic/scientific leg to stand on" is an appropriate comment. Are you saying that only language professionals should appear here, or be allowed to express any opinion? And everyone else should show due deference?
I am quite happy with my qualifications to express any opinion I see fit.

Finally, I did look back as I promised, and could not see what you were driving at, if anything; however I don't think it matters now.

"The village master taught his little school.
A man severe he was, and stern to view;
I knew him well, and every truant knew:
Well had the boding tremblers learn'd to trace
The day's disasters in his morning face;
Full well they laugh'd, with counterfeited glee,
At all his jokes, for many a joke had he;
Full well the busy whisper, circling round
Convey'd the dismal tidings when he frown'd:
Yet he was kind, or, if sever in aught,
The love he bore to learning was in fault.
The village all declared how much he knew;
'Twas certain he could write, and cipher too;
Lands he could measure, terms and tides presage,
And e'en the story ran--that he could gauge:
In arguing, too, the parson own'd his skill,
For ev'n though vanquish'd he could argue still;
While words of learned length, and thund'ring sound,
Amazed the gazing rustics ranged around;
And still they gazed, and still the wonder grew
That one small head could carry all he knew....."

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McTag:
Again with the personal attacks. I don't think I've personally attacked anyone on this thread. There are other threads for that. This is supposed to be a fun thread, as the title hints at. (I sometimes end a sentence with a preposition, too.)

JTT: Playing the martyr, always a wonderful diversionary tactic. You [and others] have maligned language and the people who use it. What's even worse, you [and others] have made fun of people's language when they have no chance to defend against these old wives tales.

=======================

McTag:
I don't recognise my "having the temerity to malign others' language" except in the context of a bit of fun on the thread.

JTT: A fun thread; spreading lies about language. That's your idea of fun, McTag. Confused

McTag:
Additionally, I don't think "you don't have a linguistic/scientific leg to stand on" is an appropriate comment. Are you saying that only language professionals should appear here, or be allowed to express any opinion? And everyone else should show due deference?
I am quite happy with my qualifications to express any opinion I see fit.

JTT: It was a perfectly apt and highly appropriate comment. Read anyone of these peeves and you'll find there's precious little to nothing to justify the peeve. It doesn't say much for a person who just repeats old saws, who thinks it's dandy to express uniformed opinions.

Of course you're entitled to your own opinions. You're just not entitled to your own set of facts. So, by all means, post your opinions but do try to back them with some facts.

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Are you just trying to stir up trouble? It sure seems like it.

I would be very surprised if you actually think you're contributing to the discussion or well-being of anyone.

If your disruption is intented to be constructive, then I should introduce you to the Oxymoron thread.
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=40540&highlight=oxymoron

It really bothers me that you're attacking McTag who is too polite and respectful to return your attacks. (The hypocricy of which is unmistakable).

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SCoates, That's telling em. McTag is a personal friend of mine, and I know he isn't the kind of person JTT tries to make him out to be. SHAME ON YOU!

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May I offer my services as a sort of arbitrator here? I freely admit that I have personal favorites in this set-to, but, that aside, perhaps I can try and make something clear.

JTT-- the problem, as I see it, isn't so much in your arguments as in your attitude. This is a matter of tone, not of content. I'll be frank: some of your arguments are more than cogent. I find myself agreeing with you on an intellectual level, then rejecting what you say because I don't like the way you say it. Piffka and MacTag have plenty of reason to feel that they have been treated with something less than common courtesy.

There are people like me, who find it easy to simply disengage from an argument when they find their opponent unpleasant to argue with. This is not a matter of life and death, nor is it anything that I feel passionately about (I've ben ending sentences with prepositions for aeons). This thread started as a pleasant diversion, not as a scholarly discourse, nor a debating club contest where bludgeoning one's opponent with incontrovertible facts might secure a sure victory. There are others, however, who will take no slight meekly and are ready to defend their views, come what may. One can hardly be surprised that these fine people take offense at a superior tone which leaves no room for arghument.

Now, to be fair, I would suggest that my friends who have taken such umbrage at JTT's manner of expressing himself consider whether, perhaps, they are not being a bit too thin-skinned. There is much merit in the arguments themselves if you can just get past the abrasive way that JTT addresses the assembled audience.

Ah, wll, hell, it was worth a try.

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Quote, "JTT: A fun thread; spreading lies about language." Calling my friend a liar won't get past me. Sorry, MA.

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Merry Andrew wrote:

Now, to be fair, I would suggest that my friends who have taken such umbrage at JTT's manner of expressing himself consider whether, perhaps, they are not being a bit too thin-skinned. There is much merit in the arguments themselves if you can just get past the abrasive way that JTT addresses the assembled audience.

Ah, wll, hell, it was worth a try.

Well thanks for all constructive comments. I agree with much of it. I agree with much of what JTT says too, except when he/she turns it against persons, and where courtesy seems to be forgotten in the quest of intellectual rigour. I am honoured to share a thread with someone who can quote Stephen Pincker, one of whose books I actually possess (tho' I confess haven't read it all the way through yet, that stuff is very heavy going).

Like a man finely dissecting a fish, then concluding that it was dead, I think that some of the introspection and dissection here has been a tad over-wrought. I made a similar comment before. Others may disagree, and I will not stand in the way of a quest for truth.

What is a "peeve"? Anything which jars. It can be something which is correct, but over-used. it could be something old-fashioned, something too modern, an unfamiliar idiom from elsewhere, it can be many things. Keep those peeves coming, I enjoy discussions about language.

I need to know from Duce, what does "Mammanthem" mean?

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JTT wrote:

McTag:
Again with the personal attacks. I don't think I've personally attacked anyone on this thread. There are other threads for that. This is supposed to be a fun thread, as the title hints at. (I sometimes end a sentence with a preposition, too.)

JTT: Playing the martyr, always a wonderful diversionary tactic. You [and others] have maligned language and the people who use it. What's even worse, you [and others] have made fun of people's language when they have no chance to defend against these old wives tales.

Making fun of people is one of the most favourite pastimes of the human race. As long as it's done without too much rancour, I think it's okay.
Your mantle of "champion of the people" does not seem to fit well, though.

Quote:

McTag:
I don't recognise my "having the temerity to malign others' language" except in the context of a bit of fun on the thread.

JTT: A fun thread; spreading lies about language. That's your idea of fun, McTag.

Not guilty of spreading lies. Guilty of trying to uphold standards.

Quote:

It doesn't say much for a person who just repeats old saws, who thinks it's dandy to express uniformed opinions.
Of course you're entitled to your own opinions. You're just not entitled to your own set of facts. So, by all means, post your opinions but do try to back them with some facts.

My opinions are informed by a lifetime's interest in my language, during which time the language has gone through quite a lot of changes.
Some of the opinions contained in the passages you have quoted from books on language seem strange to me. The general who is five miles ahead of his troops is not an effective general. Is there a case for suspecting that some of these guys are in too much of a hurry to publish, to show how avant-guard they are?

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McTag:
Making fun of people is one of the most favourite pastimes of the human race. As long as it's done without too much rancour, I think it's okay.
Your mantle of "champion of the people" does not seem to fit well, though.

JTT: I'm kinda of the opinion that it should have a measure of truth to it, McTag and it seemed that you shared that opinion, at least up until the end of your last thread.

"Others may disagree, and I will not stand in the way of a quest for truth."

I'll let someone else take on the role of "championing" for the people. I'll just discuss language if you don't mind.

==================

McTag:
Not guilty of spreading lies. Guilty of trying to uphold standards.

JTT: Standards that are perpetrated by lies, unwitting or not. There have been some voices raised, but none of these voices have addressed the issue, with the notable exception of Rufio.

=====================

McTag:
My opinions are informed by a lifetime's interest in my language, during which time the language has gone through quite a lot of changes.

JTT: That's what language does. It changes. Many of these peeves have been supportive of old 'rules' that have never been rules.

============

McTag:
Some of the opinions contained in the passages you have quoted from books on language seem strange to me.

JTT: Then the very thing that someone interested in language should do is address those issues.

=======================

McTag:
The general who is five miles ahead of his troops is not an effective general. Is there a case for suspecting that some of these guys are in too much of a hurry to publish, to show how avant-guard they are?

JTT: McTag, think for a second. How long would scientists last if they did what you're suggesting? Do you really think that Rodney Huddlestone, the main force behind the CGEL, spent ten years of his life to show how avant-guard he is?

Why do you suppose it is that there have been no responses from any of the PGs that were demolished in Chapter 12, "The Language Mavens" in the book, The Language Instinct? Why aren't these "experts" capable of even defending the positions they hold on language?

Let me take this opportunity to apologise to you [and you too Pifka] if I've been overly harsh. I'm sorry McTag and I'm sorry Pifka.

"Keep those peeves coming, I enjoy discussions about language."

And I need more cannon fodder. Smile

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Hurrah!

Joe( Very Happy

)Nation

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JTT--

Welcome to A2K.

By the by, if you want to set off a Quote from another member:

Check the boxes above the Message Bloc.

Select and click Quote.

Cut and Paste the message you are quoting.

Then click Quote again to complete your...dare I say "target"?

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Noddy24 wrote:

JTT--

Welcome to A2K.

By the by, if you want to set off a Quote from another member:

Check the boxes above the Message Bloc.

Select and click Quote.

Cut and Paste the message you are quoting.

Then click Quote again to complete your...dare I say "target"?

Thanks, Noddy.

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Fine, apology accepted, and thank you.

I apologise too, for taking up too much of this thread with off-topic comment and things of a less than general nature.

I would only comment further on

JTT wrote:

I'll let someone else take on the role of "championing" for the people. I'll just discuss language if you don't mind.

Well my goodness; I certainly don't mind. I have been accused of avoiding the issue on several occasions by you, but that takes the biscuit. If you had limited your remarks to a discussion on language, none of this unpleasantness would have occurred. I'm glad it's now stopped.

Quote:

"Keep those peeves coming, I enjoy discussions about language."

And I need more cannon fodder.

If it's cannon fodder you're after, let us look to our guns. I do not agree with all the pronouncements made from Mt Parnassus.

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a stickler
Personally, I cant stand it when people mispronouce words- and I am from a country where English is not the first language, I turn red every few minutes! Besides that, of course, I HATE when people don't know the difference between "to" and "too" and use the words inter relatedly.

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JTT: "And I need more cannon fodder." Just follow my posts and I can guarantee "more." Wink

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JTT wrote:

Let me take this opportunity to apologise to you [and you too Pifka] if I've been overly harsh. I'm sorry McTag and I'm sorry Pifka.

"Keep those peeves coming, I enjoy discussions about language."

And I need more cannon fodder.

Thanks, JTT... I appreciate your willingness to be kind to my feelings. I've been away a couple of days or would have responded to your first apology much sooner.

(And thanks to Merry Andrew for being a gentleman, as always.)

Perhaps some will smile to hear that over the last week I have been deliberately saying "me" instead of "I" and considering the misplacement of participles and, best of all, not giving a damn. What fun. My children are in shock.

McT-- I wondered about that Mamamm-something or 'nother. I also wondered about the Hot Water Heater...????

Hurry and explain this please, somebody, I need to understand before I can be fully peeved. :wink:

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Rule of Thumb:

The longer the ivy and the more venerable the institution, the more contentious the grammarians.

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Noddy, I like that! Wink

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C.I.--

Thanks for the kind words--from a man who can turn a graceful phrase himself.

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What are your pet peeves re English usage?

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