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What are your pet peeves re English usage?

 
 
Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2005 11:06 am
Qanda wrote:
1) Using "of" instead of "have", such as would of, should of, etc. The fact that these two words vastly differ in terms of spelling, pronunciation and form adds insult to injury.


Hi Qanda,

I reckon this comes from many people (at least in my part of the world) saying would've and should've so often that when it comes to writing it down, they get confused and 've becomes of. But of course, like so many other times, I could be completely wrong!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2005 11:53 am
I haven't got a pet peeve as such. Pet cat yes, but peeves are difficult to handle.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 04:56 am
Qanda wrote:
I have two major pet peeves:

1) Using "of" instead of "have", such as would of, should of, etc. The fact that these two words vastly differ in terms of spelling, pronunciation and form adds insult to injury.


Actually, Qanda, if you check a reputable language source, you'll find that the weak form pronunciation of 'of' and the weak form pronunciation of 'have' are identical.

This weak form pronunciation of 'have' is precisely the one that gets used in these present perfect and modal perfect constructions.
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Qanda
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 05:14 am
JTT wrote:
Actually, Qanda, if you check a reputable language source, you'll find that the weak form pronunciation of 'of' and the weak form pronunciation of 'have' are identical.

This weak form pronunciation of 'have' is precisely the one that gets used in these present perfect and modal perfect constructions.

I see. It's probably because here we never pronounce 'have' as 'of'.
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Ay Sontespli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 05:11 pm
The whole 'should/could have' vs 'should/could of' is an interesting debate.
I have had a lot of experience working with First Nations people and they almost seem unaware of the fact that it is supposed to be 'should/could have'.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 12:12 am
Well, I suppose everybody's got to start somewhere.

I enjoyed "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" which is a surprising best-seller. So there must be more pedants out there than just me.

And from that, I heartily concur with the disapproval of seemingly well-educated and intelligent people who don't seem to be able to tell the difference between "its" and it's", and just use the latter for everything.

From what I have seen recently in my business, I think these are now in the majority. (Which by JTT's rules, I suppose makes them right :wink: )
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 12:32 am
McTag wrote:

From what I have seen recently in my business, I think these are now in the majority. (Which by JTT's rules, I suppose makes them right :wink: )


I think that your "evaluation" on the numbers is a bit skewed and your grasp of the overall situation as regards language is not quite up to snuff, McTag.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 01:22 am
Qanda wrote:
JTT wrote:
Actually, Qanda, if you check a reputable language source, you'll find that the weak form pronunciation of 'of' and the weak form pronunciation of 'have' are identical.

This weak form pronunciation of 'have' is precisely the one that gets used in these present perfect and modal perfect constructions.

I see. It's probably because here we never pronounce 'have' as 'of'.


Really? Pronunciation is often very different from what we think:

"I could've danced all night...."

"Oh, Mull've Kintyre....."

(Written as " 've " to assist in actually "auralising" how the two are pronounced. The first is actually writen as "have" the second as "of". Most speakers pronounce them identically. I am a pedantic so and so - and would probably pronounce a recognizable "have" for the first example - many would not.)
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Qanda
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 02:37 am
dlowan wrote:
Most speakers pronounce them identically.

Precisely, that's why I said that people here never pronounce "have" as "of". Even in the short form, we still pronounce it as "have" or at least "af".
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 02:59 am
Qanda wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Most speakers pronounce them identically.

Precisely, that's why I said that people here never pronounce "have" as "of". Even in the short form, we still pronounce it as "have" or at least "af".


I've never noticed 'here' noted as one of the countries where this exception occurs, Qanda. Where might 'here' be?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 11:28 am
JTT wrote:
McTag wrote:

From what I have seen recently in my business, I think these are now in the majority. (Which by JTT's rules, I suppose makes them right :wink: )


I think that your "evaluation" on the numbers is a bit skewed and your grasp of the overall situation as regards language is not quite up to snuff, McTag.


My grasp on the overall situation is just fine and your grasp on your manners could be better.
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smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 02:57 pm
You tell him McTag...I watch this thread...it's very interesting. :wink:
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Ay Sontespli
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 04:43 pm
Quote:


My grasp on the overall situation is just fine and your grasp on your manners could be better.


Someone had to say it! I watch this thread too but have decided not to participate for the time being.
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 08:10 pm
Okay, everyone try to guess who I am:

Wow, I have such a huge head. I word everything to try to make myself sound like the intellectual superior of any set of posts. Saying things like "What you don't realise," rather than "I think;" never admitting I'm wrong, or that certain things are matters of opinion. The only matters which are matters of opinion, are matters which I STATE are matters of opinion. Otherwise there is a clear cut right and wrong, and I represent the former.

Any guesses?
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 08:42 pm
McTag wrote:

No, really. I'm not as smart as I look.

I'll be a good boy though, and go over the relevant posts again.
My general feeling about all this is, that it's an angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin argument. Or over-analysis to the nth degree. With a few straw men thrown in for good measure. Storm in a teacup. Mixed metaphors.


That's the whole point, McTag. You CHIDE me for my lack of manners and then you have the temerity to malign others language when you don't have a linguistic/scientific leg to stand on. You're more than happy just to repeat old wives tales.

I see your grasp hasn't extended to actually "go[ing] over the relevant posts again" and maybe collecting something in the way of facts to support your peeves.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 09:08 pm
Qanda wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Most speakers pronounce them identically.

Precisely, that's why I said that people here never pronounce "have" as "of". Even in the short form, we still pronounce it as "have" or at least "af".


My point was that, in many situations, the pronunciation of both is the same.

I know it sounds weird - but if you listen really hard to conversations around you, I think you will find that it is true.

I suspect this will vary from place to place, though, of course!

Australians are notoriously lazy speakers....and I am from Australia!

For instance, I truly doubt you will actually hear "have" pronounced often with the "a" sound as it is in "apple" - which is how we pronounce it when we are thinking of it as a single word - or when we are looking at it on a page - any more than "of" is often pronounced with the "o" sound as it is in "often".

I think you will find that, in practice, the vowel sound in both is pronounced the same - with some speakers putting a clear "h" sound in front of the vowel for "have", and many not.

Aded: Actually, on thinking, I suspect the "apple" "a" sound in"have" only occurs when the word follows a vowel - eh "I have done that" vs "I could 've done that." Kind of like the way in which "the" is only pronounced as "thee" when it precedes a vowel - "The end" vs "th' beginning."
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Ay Sontespli
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 11:40 pm
dlowan, I cannot agree with you more on the lazy Australian vernacular! I have been trying to teach my Aussie husband Canadian for a few years now! I reckon it is working; heaps of people ask him where he is from Wink (We moved to Australia a year ago)
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 01:57 am
Grrrrrrr! lol
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 03:15 am
SCoates wrote:
Okay, everyone try to guess who I am:

Wow, I have such a huge head. I word everything to try to make myself sound like the intellectual superior of any set of posts. Saying things like "What you don't realise," rather than "I think;" never admitting I'm wrong, or that certain things are matters of opinion. The only matters which are matters of opinion, are matters which I STATE are matters of opinion. Otherwise there is a clear cut right and wrong, and I represent the former.

Any guesses?

George Bush. No, wait, he has never said "What you don't realise...". Or should that be 'No. Wait. He has...' or No, wait. He has never...' ? Anyway, I think I am wrong... I think it's my second wife and I can't figure out how scoates knows her, I just feel sorry for scoates. Whatever.

Which is really what I wanted to say. It irks me no end. uh. It irks me to no end. er. It really jars my slats when someone says the word whatever as if it is an answer to a question or, especially, when it's used as a reply to a correction.

Am I just crunchy?

Joe( It just drives me crazy) Nation
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Qanda
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 07:29 am
dlowan wrote:
For instance, I truly doubt you will actually hear "have" pronounced often with the "a" sound as it is in "apple" - which is how we pronounce it when we are thinking of it as a single word - or when we are looking at it on a page - any more than "of" is often pronounced with the "o" sound as it is in "often".

I stay in Singapore, and I have never heard anyone pronounce "have" as "of" before. It is always "have" or "af" (for short form). "Af" and "of" take the same amount of effort to pronounce anyway. I think it has something to do with differing accents of regions.
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