Hmmm. Who was that masked man? Goes off humming the William Tell Overture.
Jtt--
Can you provide a link for the BBC website?
JTT wrote:Piffka wrote:McTag wrote:
I mean, what are "rules" for informal styles, and who would be bothered to draft them?
LOL Good one, McTag!
McTag wrote:I think Pincker is troubled by the size of his own brain (which doesn't trouble me much) and drunk with the exuberance of his own verbosity.
People recognise rules and norms, and you would not get far in the BBC newsroom or the legal profession if unable to comply with them.
A couple of the typical studied responses that normally come from peevists. They streak off on tangents.
Of course people recognize rules and norms, McTag. You [normally] adhere to all the rules of language. This present issue {and all these issues raised by peevists] has very little to do with what goes on in the formal setting of the BBC.
Isn't it interesting that the BBC website for language study has a section for street lingo. Imagine that, the BBC allows actual real life language on its programs. And horror of horrors, it actually, no it can't be, ... it encourages its use!! What is this world coming to!! Can Armageddon be far behind?
BBC:
"Learn the language of the street - what people say and the topics they like to talk about. Take a look at these music words and phrases and then take the Lingo Challenge!"
The some examples:
"Sports - Football
Do you want to watch some footie? / the match? - Fancy going to watch football?
They really took a hammering. / took a thrashing. - They lost the game badly.
They're playing at home / away - The team is playing the match at their own ground. / at the opposing team's ground.
He lives and breathes the game! / Football's his life! / Football's in his blood! - He's a total football fanatic!
Football - Commentators {this means these folks are actually on TV}
He covers every blade of grass. - He's an energetic player.
He goes in where the boots are flying! - He's a player who is always at the centre of the action!
It's handbags at six paces! - There's a mild disagreement on the pitch [a reference to how women might flick their handbags at each other but not get into a serious argument].
He keeps it tight at the back. - The player makes sure the defence is well organised.
The keeper keeps a tight sheet. - The goalkeeper [goalie] doesn't let many goals in.
He's lethal in the air! - He'a good at using his head to hit the ball.
A netbuster - A powerful shot which is in danger of breaking the goal's net!
He teases the full back - He makes it difficult for the defence to get the ball!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
What it is that people don't recognize are 'rules' that are foreign to the natural workings of their native tongue. What's so highly instructive in all this is that y'all can peeve to beat the band but you just can't seem to back up your peeves with facts.
Let me leave you and Piffka with a last little quote to help you grasp just who it is that is actually trying to determine how language works. {a little hint; it's not the PGs]
-------------
The Grammar Book - An ESL/EFL Teacher's Course
Many people are under the impression that the facts about a given language are all known. Nothing could be further from the truth. Much is not known about English,
particularly at the level of discourse and in the dimension of pragmatics.
I'm not sure what all that was about, and the final paragraph is a belter.
You may take it that I agree that English sounds different in Glasgow, Sunderland, Birmingham, Bristol, Kentish Town and Hoboken, all from native speakers. Different words, different phrases, different idioms, same words meaning different things, different pronunciations, different accents, all communicating well with the intended recipient, most untroubled by rules, formal or otherwise. Also, that English evolves and changes over time, sometimes rather quickly. Also, that grammarians and lexicologists who compile rules and dictionaries are continually playing catch-up.
McTag wrote:
I'm not sure what all that was about,
The cookie jar lies broken at your feet, cookies strewn all around and you play the innocent, McTag. Nice try.
JTT wrote:McTag wrote:
I'm not sure what all that was about,
The cookie jar lies broken at your feet, cookies strewn all around and you play the innocent, McTag. Nice try.
No, really. I'm not as smart as I look. I'll be a good boy though, and go over the relevant posts again.
My general feeling about all this is, that it's an angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin argument. Or over-analysis to the nth degree. With a few straw men thrown in for good measure. Storm in a teacup. Mixed metaphors.
JTT--
Many thanks.
McTag--
You and Churchill:
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
You have less muscle than WC but just a wee bit more tact.
I'm not sure if Winston ever knowingly even split an infinitive. That is the "sort of thing up with which he would not put".
:wink:
Although no doubt someone will write in now and correct me.
Hi McT
Long time no tea
to spllit an infinative is
certainly literate
(I came back from the dead, Steve 41oo aka Lazarus)
Hi Steve, welcome back, good to see you.
You can see me now?
my god how technology moves fast
(sits upright at desk)
and you McTag and Mrs McTag and all the other McTags I dont yet know about
S
JTT wrote:Piffka wrote:McTag wrote:
I mean, what are "rules" for informal styles, and who would be bothered to draft them?
LOL Good one, McTag!
McTag wrote:I think Pincker is troubled by the size of his own brain (which doesn't trouble me much) and drunk with the exuberance of his own verbosity.
People recognise rules and norms, and you would not get far in the BBC newsroom or the legal profession if unable to comply with them.
A couple of the typical studied responses that normally come from peevists. They streak off on tangents.
Of course people recognize rules and norms, McTag. You [normally] adhere to all the rules of language. This present issue {and all these issues raised by peevists] has very little to do with what goes on in the formal setting of the BBC.
Isn't it interesting that the BBC website for language study has a section for street lingo. Imagine that, the BBC allows actual real life language on its programs. And horror of horrors, it actually, no it can't be, ... it encourages its use!! What is this world coming to!! Can Armageddon be far behind?
BBC:
"Learn the language of the street - what people say and the topics they like to talk about. Take a look at these music words and phrases and then take the Lingo Challenge!"
The some examples:
"Sports - Football
Do you want to watch some footie? / the match? - Fancy going to watch football?
They really took a hammering. / took a thrashing. - They lost the game badly.
They're playing at home / away - The team is playing the match at their own ground. / at the opposing team's ground.
He lives and breathes the game! / Football's his life! / Football's in his blood! - He's a total football fanatic!
Football - Commentators {this means these folks are actually on TV}
He covers every blade of grass. - He's an energetic player.
He goes in where the boots are flying! - He's a player who is always at the centre of the action!
It's handbags at six paces! - There's a mild disagreement on the pitch [a reference to how women might flick their handbags at each other but not get into a serious argument].
He keeps it tight at the back. - The player makes sure the defence is well organised.
The keeper keeps a tight sheet. - The goalkeeper [goalie] doesn't let many goals in.
He's lethal in the air! - He'a good at using his head to hit the ball.
A netbuster - A powerful shot which is in danger of breaking the goal's net!
He teases the full back - He makes it difficult for the defence to get the ball!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
What it is that people don't recognize are 'rules' that are foreign to the natural workings of their native tongue. What's so highly instructive in all this is that y'all can peeve to beat the band but you just can't seem to back up your peeves with facts.
Let me leave you and Piffka with a last little quote to help you grasp just who it is that is actually trying to determine how language works. {a little hint; it's not the PGs]
-------------
The Grammar Book - An ESL/EFL Teacher's Course
Many people are under the impression that the facts about a given language are all known. Nothing could be further from the truth. Much is not known about English,
particularly at the level of discourse and in the dimension of pragmatics.
JTT -- You have been a jerk to me since you came onto this forum. I have no idea why except that I was taught at a very early age to speak a kind of English you don't like. I can't help my use of so-called proper English anymore than someone else can willy-nilly split their infinitives.
It is strange... how is it that my English is not OK, but everything else is just fine?
Anyway, you've continuously insulted me and others. As far as I'm concerned, your snide talk has gone far enough. I ask you officially to quit the insults to me. I've had enough bullying on this forum. The study of English does not have to be a contact sport.
Btw -- there is at least one mistake in those BBC rules. Grass-green IS a kind of color.
Great to see you back, Steve. As to the split infinitive, I think that idea came from the Latin influence in our grammar. In Latin, the word video, means to see, and in English, to see (two words, see?). There is absolutely nothing wrong with "to more clearly see the essence of this thread, one must go back and read the entire thing."
Other Peeves
Hello,
I was washing some dishes today when I realized I wanted to express a pet peeve of mine. I've actually got a few to mention. Here they are:
1. It irritates me when people say Valentimes Day instead of Valentines Day (although I must admit that, as holidays go, it is a rather insidious marketing tool).
2. Often I hear people say "literally" when they mean to be figurative. Here's an example "She was literally climbing the walls." To express that she was irritated or anxious.
3. Many folks say "I could care less." when I am sure they mean "I couldn't care less." The former expresses that they still care a little bit. The latter expresses almost total apathy.
Thanks. I feel much better. I'll now be able to wash the dishes in peace.
Oh, I wanted to say one more thing. As someone who is struggling at the moment to learn German, I think we all need to be patient with foreigners mispronouning words. It is to be expected.
Thanks Letty
Its good to be back....I missed you all
And to willy nilly split infinitives is something we all should do.
Hi Pif!
JTT -- You have been a jerk to me since you came onto this forum. I have no idea why except that I was taught at a very early age to speak a kind of English you don't like. I can't help my use of so-called proper English anymore than someone else can willy-nilly split their infinitives.
JTT: Actually, I think your English is simply grand, Piffka. Those aspects that you had to be taught weren't about English and it's only fair to expect that you should be able to mount a defence for those things that are prescriptions.
P: It is strange... how is it that my English is not OK, but everything else is just fine?
Anyway, you've continuously insulted me and others. As far as I'm concerned, your snide talk has gone far enough. I ask you officially to quit the insults to me. I've had enough bullying on this forum. The study of English does not have to be a contact sport.
JTT: If I've insulted you, I apologise. If I think you have insulted language, I'll reserve the right to point that out.
P: Btw -- there is at least one mistake in those BBC rules. Grass-green IS a kind of color.
JTT: I missed that one completely, Piffka.
Re: Other Peeves
Jet wrote:
3. Many folks say "I could care less." when I am sure they mean "I couldn't care less." The former expresses that they still care a little bit. The latter expresses almost total apathy.
Hi Jet,
I"m personally of the opinion that it is too big an assumption that we can discern what others mean to say. What's wrong with having and using both, "I could care less." & "I couldn't care less".
Sometimes caring a little bit could frustrate a body even worse than someone who doesn't care at all.
My peeve today is the overused phrase "We are where we are". (meaning, this is the situation we find ourselves in, now we've got to agree on the way forward)
When you've heard that a few times, you want to scream.
I have two major pet peeves:
1) Using "of" instead of "have", such as would of, should of, etc. The fact that these two words vastly differ in terms of spelling, pronunciation and form adds insult to injury.
2) Spelling "sense" as "sence". It definitely makes no sence.
