What are your pet peeves re English usage?

JTT wrote:

McTag wrote:
Piffka wrote:
Here's a pet peeve of mine: discovering that I've been mispronouncing a word after years of use.

Most recent peeve issue: talking about the new film BABEL. Turns out my pronunciation is 2nd-rate and likely a med-western foible.

Sheesh.

We always pronounced it BAY-bl. How do they pronounce it in Hollywood?

Is this as in The Tower of Babel? Did 'babble' have any connection to this word, McTag?

It may well have done, or may just be onomatapoeic like "hubbub".
I will attempt to check. Cool

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I always understood 'babble' came from Tower of Babel...pronounced as McT said btw.

How else is it pronounced?

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McTag wrote:

JTT wrote:
McTag wrote:
Piffka wrote:
Here's a pet peeve of mine: discovering that I've been mispronouncing a word after years of use.

Most recent peeve issue: talking about the new film BABEL. Turns out my pronunciation is 2nd-rate and likely a med-western foible.

Sheesh.

We always pronounced it BAY-bl. How do they pronounce it in Hollywood?

Is this as in The Tower of Babel? Did 'babble' have any connection to this word, McTag?

It may well have done, or may just be onomatapoeic like "hubbub".
I will attempt to check.

No, well just a bit; interesting cross-reference in my big dictionary.

Babble, probably from the infantile ba, ba, cf. prattle and the French babiller. Perhaps affected in sense by Babel.

Babel, meaning Babylon in Hebrew, associated in Genesis with the idea of confusion: it has no known Semitic root.

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I like the fortuitous link of Bab-ili - the gate of God with Babble = to prattle.
BAYbel is the preferred pronunciation in British English, in fact i've never heard of an alternative and my dictionaries don't give one.

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babble is indeed a quite common word in many languages - like in German :wink:

Quote:

Etymology: Middle English babelen; probably of imitative origin like Middle English babe, babie baby, Low German babbeln to babble, Old Norse babba, Latin babulus babbler, Greek barbaros foreign, Late Greek babazein to speak inarticulately, Sanskrit balbal stammering sound, barbara stammering

source: "babble." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (22 Jan. 2007).

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It's like Barbarian and Berber which both came from the Greek barbar- meaning to make silly and babyish sounds.
Many peoples have thought other languages sound outlandish and silly. When I was in Hong Kong, I was often asked by Cantonese native speakers 'Sik gong a?' which means 'Do you speak'? It was thought unnecessary to specify Chinese - because anything else wasn't really speaking at all, just barbarbarbar - babble.

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Clary wrote:

I like the fortuitous link of Bab-ili - the gate of God with Babble = to prattle.
BAYbel is the preferred pronunciation in British English, in fact i've never heard of an alternative and my dictionaries don't give one.

Yeh, BAYbel, so come on Piffka, what alternatives have you got?

We had some fun when I was in Connecticut, comparing pronunciations.

(And that's where I found out that a "pocket book" was a handbag)

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Mmmhmmm, but you pronounce migraine as Mee-grain and so cannot be trusted. Very Happy

http://www.bartleby.com/61/31/B0003100.html

Bartleby via the Am. Heritage Dictionary agrees that there are some who pronounce the words Babel and babble the same... but describes that as the less preferred (though one imagines still acceptable if you're an American) pronunciation.

(The above link has audio versions you can hear for yourself).

That same dictionary mentions likely ties to Babylon... how do you pronounce that city name? Baby-lon? (I am instantly transported to the memory of a Reggae song where that city was pronounced Bah Bee Lon.)

One might think there is a spelling clue to pronounce babel such as it is because of the single "b" (vs. the double "b" of babble) but my 2 vol. OED says babble was first written "bable" (1462 and 1560 when used in the way I'd most likely use it -- incoherent string of words, mutterings) but relates the word's first definition as the sound babies make as first used & spelled babble in the 1800's.

Frankly, it is confusing... as babble ought to be. I for one will try to avoid using it from now on.

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I pronounce Babylon babby-lon and I think everybody else does.

We say both my grain and me grain for migraine and I'm not sure which is more prevalent (I avoided using "commoner" there for obvious reasons)

I think I would mostly use the former, but I'm pretty sure I've used both at different times.
The former makes clear what you actually mean, as some listeners might not pick up me grain on the first utterance.

Some purists would plump for the French pronunciation of course.

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You say My grain? I thought it was far more likely for a Brit to pronounce it with a long ee.

Since Babel comes from Babylon* (which we pronounce the same, not withstanding my American upbringing), then why does it make sense to be pronounced Bay-bel? Of course, logic and pronunciation are not necessarily as close as we might hope they'd be, which is indeed the beauty of the language.

*OED seems to think so, albeit not from a Hebrew word

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Piffka wrote:

Since Babel comes from Babylon* (which we pronounce the same, not withstanding my American upbringing), then why does it make sense to be pronounced Bay-bel?

I'm not sure. Clary will help me out here. I would suggest, just to differentiate it from babble. But I don't really know. And logic does not seem to play a very big part in these things.

My sister-in-law, who works in a Government office in Canada, once sent us a poem, a rhyme which someone had written which jocularly pointed out inconsitencies in English grammar and pronunciation. I wish I had it still.

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Migraine comes from Hemi (half, in Greek) Cranium (Head, in Latin)

It's a corrupt word to start with but Hemi is pronounced "hemmy" like Semi is pronounced "semmy" unless your American, of course!

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Or, why don't we pronounce the Bible like bibbel? (The Germans do)

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McTag wrote:

Or, why don't we pronounce the Bible like bibbel? (The Germans do)

No, in German it's pronounced "beeble"/"beebel"

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Bible -- which is related to biblio... as in bibliothek, bibliography, etc.

Migraine is from half a brain? Hmmm. Very Happy

That's interesting... and quite descriptive.

I sometimes do pronounce semi as semmy, KitchenPete; semiconductor, comes to mind. In some cases, can't decide if there's a rule for when or not, it is (in the USA) pronounced sem-i... e.g. that large semi (truck) is headed straight towards us.

Then there's quasi-... quasi-ee or quas-i? I prefer the second but pronounce the s as "z".

from Bartleby: "The pronunciation (kwä´sE) is Classical Latin and the pronunciation (kw´sI) is Anglicized Latin. Note that in both of these the s is pronounced like s. In American English, speakers are more likely to pronounce the s like z, which is now also considered standard."

It is a wonder we can understand each other as well as we do.

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I've noticed lawyers who use Anglicized Latin will use English pronunciation, Decree Nighsigh for example, and Quasigh, but those of us with a classical education and no job-related Latinisms go for the more Italian sound, quasee. In our generation we had to pronounce Latin v as w, so it was wainie, weedee, weekee. Bit affected really. And then Catholics use an Italian 'ch' for Latin 'c', in exchelsis.

Sorry, I'm rambling; but it's quite interesting, isn't it?

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Nodding.

Ramble away... I find it interesting. I've found that most Americans adore hearing people speak with different accents. Our penchant for British and <swoon> Scottish accents are well-known though little understood. Not too fair, really. If you come to the USA, you'd be loved for your accent, whereas if I go to the UK.... eh... not so much.

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McTag -- I read an article on common errors a loooonnnnngggg time ago that said that one of the worst errors was to use a brand name as a name for product that already has a generic name, e.g., kleenex for tissues, Frigidair for refrigerator and Davenport for sofa.

The use of the word pocketbook -- which is a New England thing -- for purse, is a similiar error although there is no brand name pocketbook. I think the use of pocketbook for purse is due to a conflation of pocketbook (notebook; later soft cover book) and needlebook (a folded and stitched piece of fabric with the flannel insert to which needles are attached). I have politely but firmly clung to the word purse.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

JTT wrote:

I couldn't possibly explain it to one who has a preconceived notion of what it SHOULD mean, Steve.

I could possibly explain it to one who has a preconceived notion of what it SHOULD mean, Steve.

Are these two sentences opposite in meaning because one sentence uses the negative form <couldn't> and the other uses the positive form <could>?

Yes. Absolutely they are. I'm not being a pedant here. One can play all sorts of games with words without affecting meaning. But there are certain basic rules - the "not" operator being one - that you cant leave out without fundamentally changing the meaning of the sentence.

I don't believe for a second that you're trying to be pedantic here.

1. I could explain it to a person who has a preconceived notion of what it SHOULD mean, Steve.

2. I cooooould possibly explain it to a person who has a preconceived notion of what it SHOULD mean, Steve.

3. I cooooooooooould possssssibly explain it to a person who has a preconceived notion of what it SHOULD mean, Steve.

Steve, do sentences 1, 2 & 3 all express the same level of certainty?

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Here are two that drive me absolutely batty:

She has already went.

Ackkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bring it to her.

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What are your pet peeves re English usage?

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