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What are your pet peeves re English usage?

Forums: English, Grammar, Abusage, Pet Peeves, English Usage
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mac11
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 12:28 pm
When did "journal" become a verb?

I know, I know, language evolves but this trend of turning nouns into verbs seems to be everywhere I turn lately.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 01:33 pm
ive never heard it as a verb mac

you mean like

i journal
you journal
he she or it journals
we journal
you journal
they journalists?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 03:22 pm
mac11 wrote:
When did "journal" become a verb?

I know, I know, language evolves but this trend of turning nouns into verbs seems to be everywhere I turn lately.


Yes, there are scores of them. To network, etc etc.

I don't object too much I think, it's only the new ones which grate.

"Bond" can be both, and no complaints presumably.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 03:30 pm
I journal presumably means 'I write a diary' - or does it mean 'I am a journalist'? Or is it just used in the passive: These facts were journalled (sorry, journaled for the Americans) by Pepys in the Plague Year?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 04:31 pm
Clary had to laugh reading your tag line, and thinking of you and McT on indian camel reading driving instructions.
0 Replies
 
chichan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 05:07 pm
McTag wrote:
Well, yes. These are deep and turbid waters. Viewed like that, "rules for speaking" becomes something of a contradiction. I think everyone uses differing modes of speech in differing circumstances.

But the grammar, the substance of language is always there.

It has been said too, that an Englishman only has to open his mouth to speak, for some other Englishman to despise him.

I think this helps illustrate our situation. That one Englishman dislikes another's speech only shows that that Englishman is simply ignorant, not in any pejorative sense, of the other's dialect.

Just the same, if we are to have grammar for the language, and a "grammatical" way of speaking, then I think you must allow of the existence of the ungrammatical, however conventional, handy, brief, comprehensible etc it may be.

ungrammatical can have we. Everyone recognizes ungrammatical speech because we have such a deep innate grasp for our grammar. But to suggest, as MA did, that speech is guided by the rules for writing is simply ludicrous.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 05:16 pm
chichan wrote:
McTag wrote:

ungrammatical can have we. Everyone recognizes ungrammatical speech because we have such a deep innate grasp for our grammar. But to suggest, as MA did, that speech is guided by the rules for writing is simply ludicrous.


That is not, in fact, what I meant to suggest at all. All I meant was that in writing one needs to be far more cognizant of the "accepted" or "standard" rules of written communication (there! I didn't use the word "grammar" at all) than one would in common everyday speech. Sorry for the misunderstanding. There are times when my own written communication is apparently none too clear.
0 Replies
 
chichan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 05:31 pm
mac11 wrote:
When did "journal" become a verb?

I know, I know, language evolves but this trend of turning nouns into verbs seems to be everywhere I turn lately.


Mac,

You're only witnessing what has always been a common feature of English.

A noun becomes a verb as soon as it's used in that fashion. Whetehr it sticks or not is another thing. But regardless, it serves its purpose for that moment.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2005 02:58 pm
I heard this on the radio this morning

" ... surrounded on all sides by vineyards..."

It sounds right, right? But it can't be right. Or can it?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2005 03:17 pm
Well, if the place was Breedon on the Hill (Hill Hill on the Hill - Celtic/Saxon), it might be correct.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 01:14 am
Good one, Walter. Your sensitivity for, and understanding of, a second language puts us all to shame.

Well me, at any rate. Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 01:53 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Clary had to laugh reading your tag line, and thinking of you and McT on indian camel reading driving instructions.


He (being a mild-mannered Cancerian) will be given the horn to trumpet melodiously, but I (being a fiery Sagittarian) will snatch it from him to tootle with vigor should the need arise.


As for journal becoming a verb the first time it's used as such, this is a kind of technical definition. Nobody is quarrelling with that, but surely usage in the larger world is more important. A dictionary of all the nonce-words that people have chosen to invent would never end - fascinating though I'd find it. We come down to a democratic kind of definition - "generally acceptable", surely. When did journal become generally acceptable? Hasn't here yet, and I still don't know what it means.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 03:16 am
Less of the "mild". I have my moments. Why, there was an occasion in 1967 ....
0 Replies
 
Goldmund
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 05:55 am
mac11 wrote:
When did "journal" become a verb?

I know, I know, language evolves but this trend of turning nouns into verbs seems to be everywhere I turn lately.


Dear Mac11,

It is also most useful in accounting. You may say: «I have journalled» instead of «I have done a journal».

Kind regards, Smile

Goldmund
0 Replies
 
thejum57
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2005 08:40 pm
Newbie reply
As a newbie, my biggest peeve is initials for everything. BK, 24-7-365, Micky D's, KFC, precip...(rain) , re-fi...(re-financing). Makes me wanna puke!!!! As for the "9-11" reference, I ALWAYS refer to it as...September 11th. Nothing more should need to be said in the US. After all how often do you hear 7-04!!! Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Oct, 2005 02:47 am
welcome2 A2k, tj57 Smile

OIC what u mean...
ok, 10-4!
0 Replies
 
lezzles
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Oct, 2005 08:31 am
I haven't been through all 224 pages of this thread, so my apologies if these have been brought up before.

1. "Of" instead of "have" - I could of danced all night; and

2. "Of" with "Off" - Can't take my eyes off of you.

They really have me mentally climbing the wall!
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2005 04:53 am
I could've danced all night- sounds the same. Pity some people have to write it, wrongly
(pity that some people have to sing it, badly, but that's another story)

While in a musical mood- I think you need that extra little word to keep the metre right in

You're just to good to be true
Can't take my eyes off-a you
You'd be like heaven to touch
I want to hold you so much...
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2005 05:28 am
Why thank you McTag, I never knew you cared...
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2005 05:42 am
...At long last love has arrived
And I thank God I'm alive
You're just too good to be true, Steve
Can't take my eyes off (of) you
0 Replies
 
 

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