19
   

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

 
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 09:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
I am not sure what point you are trying to make?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 10:13 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
I am not sure what point you are trying to make?
That's because your mind has already been tainted by your religion. You are ignoring science to favor your religious history of our planet and human evolution. 1. This planet is not 7,000 years old as the Bible claims; it's over 4.5 billion years old. 2. Homo sapients evolved from primates, not as descendants of Adam and Eve. (Eve was created from Adam's rib). You don't replicate animals from their ribs; it has to be from their heart and brains, and other anatomical parts that make life necessary.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 11:15 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
That's because your mind has already been tainted by your religion. You are ignoring science to favor your religious history of our planet and human evolution


Science and religion are similar in some areas and different in other areas. Science can be measured. Religion, not so much. Religion is closer to philosophy and the ethical part of subjects. Science is closer to the discreet and quantitative aspects. They both perform different functions. You don't use science to answer ethical questions and you don't use religion to measure the universe.

We don't need the stupidity of religious people or the egotistical stance of the scientific people. We need the ethics and integrity delivered by religion and the logic and reasoning championed by science. It is all about blending the two, and believe me, I found that only in Quran which invites humans to observe things around them and believe with logic and reasoning. It takes time, patience, understanding and commitment to find this right balance which Islam offers, the balance between this worldly knowledge and knowledge of unseen which you can never prove by science.

People like you use science to defend their own belief system but fact of the matter is that you have zero understanding of science and its principals ( I am not belittling you, just stating my observation based on our dialogue so far and I may be wrong). There is a famous saying that "little knowledge of science makes one an atheist but in-depth knowledge of science makes one a believer."

Science can’t be always right by definition because scientific knowledge isn’t something cut in stone. It can be changed and redefined. Scientists can be mistaken in certain issues and then admit their mistakes. This is the key to find the right religion. There are several facts which are only recently proved by science but are mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago which only proves that Quran has to be from the creator of this universe. Below is a link which should help if you have an open mind and a good understanding of scientific methodology.

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/index.html

Quote:
1. This planet is not 7,000 years old as the Bible claims; it's over 4.5 billion years old.


I am not an expert to comment on Bible so I will leave that for my Christian brothers and sisters to explain. Quran does talk about creation of Adam and Eve as well as creation of universe, see link below to understand Quran's point of view on this subject. Take your time please and make sure you read all links I am providing before you jump to conclusions.

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/age_of_universe.htm

[/quote]Homo sapients evolved from primates, not as descendants of Adam and Eve. (Eve was created from Adam's rib). You don't replicate animals from their ribs; it has to be from their heart and brains, and other anatomical parts that make life necessary. [/quote]

Do have some sort of short term memory loss? I gave answer to your this argument yesterday and never your reply back. see link below:

https://able2know.org/topic/215426-19#post-6859960

I also refuted at least couple of time theory of evolution in response to your other post and of course you don't want to answer those as well because atheism is purely based of nonsense. You can't provide evidence for any of your claim. Anyways, I am providing you links to my posts yet again and hope you will be more specific in reply to the facts and proofs I gave in my posts rather than introducing other subjects to avoid answering the most obvious questions.

https://able2know.org/topic/215426-19#post-6859536
https://able2know.org/topic/215426-19#post-6859855

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:03 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
Science and religion are similar in some areas.
. Wrong. What is in the Bible cannot be revised. Science can revise its theories based on current evidence. Show us the similarities?
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Wrong. What is in the Bible cannot be revised. Science can revise its theories based on current evidence. Show us the similarities?


My friend you jump to answer a post without fully reading it. Please read my post in its entirety and then you can ask questions. By the way when I talk about religion, I am only referring to Islam and Quran. You can't bring a single established ( I mean established not hypothesis) scientific fact which goes against Quran.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 02:31 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Christianity_vs_Islam 1. Why did christianity and islam develop around the same part of the world? 2. Why has these religions come so late in human history? 3. Why do other countries and cultures have their own religions? 4. Science proves through evidence, that humans evolved from primates. What is your religion's answer? 5. Why did god choose your part of the world to "save its people?" 6. Christianity evolved from Greek and Egyptian mythology. https://www.quora.com/Which-came-first-Christianity-or-Greek-Mythology 7. Which came first? Christianity or Islam? https://www.answers.com/Q/What_religion_came_first_Christianity_or_Islam. I'm not here to dissuade you from any religion. After all, there are thousands of religions around the world which proves that religion is part and parcel of human society. I'm only trying to explain why I am not persuaded to be religious, although all my siblings are christians.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 03:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The problem with our discussion so far is that you don't stick to one topic and never fully read my post and reply that post in its entirety. It is like you only listen to headline and walk off assuming you already know what rest of the story would be. This attitude only let you look at the surface and it appears you don't want to dig deeper.

Anyways, you and I both know that there are so many religions in the World and I have stated this earlier that Islam is the religion which started with Adam and is the religion of all prophets so it is as old as humans are. Islam is not bound to any region. Quran tell us that Allah has sent prophet to all previous nations and message of all those prophets was to "Believe in one God." Islam is only completed when last Prophet, Prophet Muhammad PBUH came to deliver final message for entire humanity. So to summarize:

Islam is as old as human history.
It is not confined to a particular region, you will see Muslims in every corner of the world. I am an American and I am proud to be Muslim.
Islam is final message for entire humanity and there are no more prophets to come after Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

Now what does this mean to you?

I totally understand your situation and if I were you, I will be asking many questions. If those questions are not answered with logic then you have every right to believe in what you believe. However, if answer to those question do make sense to you then perhaps you should sincerely re-examine your beliefs.

What is the proof that Islam is true religion?

It does not contradict its message and all ESTABLISHED scientific facts agree with what Quran says even though many of these facts are recently established but those are stated in Quran 1400 years ago.

Now there are still many facts in Quran which modern science neither agree nor disagree. We can call those ambiguous facts and I am sure as science makes more progress, we will find that those will also match with Quranic description.

For example look at one of my post here:

https://able2know.org/topic/520814-1#post-6860516

So let's focus on one thing at a time please so that our discussion can be beneficial for both of us and everyone else here. Please take your time to read my posts and start with one question. I will not move to next question until we respectfully agree/disagree on our discussion to your previous question. If you agree, let's start over and I request you to post your question.

Thanks for your patience with me.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 10:07 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Islam was developed in the Middle East in the 7th century CE. That's a fact.
Quote:
Muhammad the Founder of Islam: Major Religions of the World
www.majorreligions.com/muhammad.php
Muhammad (also spelled Mohammed) born 570 AD in Mecca (current day Saudi Arabia), and passed away June 8, 632 in Medina (current day Saudi Arabia) is the founder of the religion of Islam; however, he is contrarily regarded by Muslims as a messenger and prophet of God, the last and the greatest law-bearer in a series of Islamic prophets, ....
And,
Quote:
History of Islam - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam
The history of Islam concerns the political, social, economic and developments of the Islamic civilization. Despite concerns about the reliability of early sources, most historians believe that Islam originated in Mecca and Medina at the start of the 7th century, approximately 600 years after the founding of Christianity.


HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jun, 2019 09:45 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Islam was developed in the Middle East in the 7th century CE. That's a fact.


I am not surprised by your response. It only shows me that you never read the Quran, otherwise you would not make such a statement. Let be provide you a quick background which may help to answer your question:

The most fundamental belief in Islam is that we believe there is only one God (Allah, in Arabic), and so one who submits to the word of Allah is a Muslim.

We also believe that there were thousands of prophets who came over the course of history to preach the word of God, like Noah, Abraham, Jesus, Moses, David, etc. (peace be upon them all). The final messenger was Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

Muslims also believe that all these prophets preached the same message since the beginning of time: there is only one God worthy of worship, so worship Him. Sometimes, this message became corrupted or lost, so another messenger would come, until the very last one came. We believe all of these prophets to be Muslim, in the sense that they believed in one God, worshipped Him, and taught the exact same message.

So Islam is just a continuation of that same message. Therefore, we consider this message to be as old as the human race, since Adam (peace be upon him) was also a Muslim (one who submits to the word of God).

If you read Quran, you will find all the facts I stated above as a main theme and part of Muslim belief system. Actually you shared a link with me yesterday showing similarities between Christians and Muslims and that link stated the same facts.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jun, 2019 10:42 am
@HabibUrrehman,
CLUE & FACT: Men have created thousands of gods. They do not exist except in the minds of men. Research has been done at Stanford and Yale Universities, and they found that prayers do not work. Only in a personal way when the believer thinks that god will help them. The conclusion? That a positive mind is helpful in overcoming illness. That's Psych 101. BTW, I am not surprised by your response. All my siblings are christians, and believe in their god. I am an atheist who believes our life on this planet is all there is. Some die at childbirth, and others live to be over 100 years old. Some are born with deformities, and some not. Not all men and women are treated equally, and that's world-wide. Humans evolved from primates; that's what anthropologists and scientists have determined by evidence. To believe that a god will provide one with everlasting life or death is laughable at best. We all die like all animal life on this planet. The longest living things are redwood trees. Beyond all that, I find eternal life to be boring and unproductive. Our best shot is how we live on this planet for that short period we are allowed to live. I don't look forward to any more life beyond my life on this planet. Your god appeared only 2,000 years ago, and humans walked this planet for over 200,000 years. We also evolved. http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence. It's not too wise to rely on a 2,000 year old book when science has evidence of our existence and evolution, and what we observe as "god's creation." The history of human existence is mired in untold misery, wars, famine, and tyrannical governance. Even our "democracy" still suffers from discrimination and unequal treatment of our fellow men and women. That's the true status of man; we are the product of our culture that builds bombs to kill millions with one of them. God? They have nothing to do with human societies except when they go to "church." The only thing I find attractive about religion are the beautiful churches, temples, and sites they have built. The people who promote them are not exactly "saints."

HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jun, 2019 11:37 am
@cicerone imposter,
You are repeating same thing with no evidence and disregarding what I am saying. Islam is not 2000 years old religion. It is as old as human beings are.

Regarding evolution, please see link below for my response:

https://able2know.org/topic/229102-608#post-6860977

If this life alone is enough, then how do you justify injustice in this world? There are people who have extreme power and misuse their power to gain worldly gains and are never convicted for any crime. On the other hand there are people who do lot of good things but are not rewarded enough in this world. See link below for my post on this particular topic:

https://able2know.org/topic/515579-3#post-6860009

If you still disagree, that's okay. You can disagree respectfully. You got your belief system and I got mine.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Jun, 2019 11:47 am
@HabibUrrehman,
What I posted "are' the facts. Your brain is blocked by your own ignorance. There's no cure for your kind of ignorance. What I posted are based on science, anthropology, paleontology, and education. What you post are based on religion. You wrote, "Darwin never said that man came from ape!" I never made such a claim. Your ability at grammar fails the laugh test. I never in any of my posts related Darwin to apes. You will be put on IGNORE.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jun, 2019 03:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
With all due respect, you seriously lack common sense and it is not even worth having a dialogue with you. So please go ahead and IGNORE.
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