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Quran and age of Universe

 
 
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:02 pm
Time is relative. We know from Einstein that my clock and your clock will not run at the same rate. Time (or rate of our clocks) depends on acceleration and/or gravity. If my clock accelerates and/or is in a strong gravitational field then it will run slower than your clock. Quran 22.47 compares time on Earth with time at Paradise/Hell (1 day vs. 1000 years). While Quran 70.4 compares time on Earth with time in wormholes (1 day vs. 50,000 years).

Muslims believe that Paradise and Hell are both much bigger and much more massive than Earth (but still much smaller than God's Throne). The theory of general relativity says that time passes slower near an object more massive than Earth (clocks run slower in stronger gravitational fields). So according to general relativity, time should pass in Paradise/Hell much slower than on Earth. It is stated in the Quran that 1 day in Paradise/Hell measures a 1000 years on Earth.

Quote:
Quran 22.47] They challenge you to bring forth that torture [in Hell] and Allah will not break His promise; a day of your Lord [Paradise/Hell promise] is like a thousand years of what you count.


Here God promises those who do not believe in Hell and punishment that each day of their torture in Hell will measure a thousand years on Earth. So according to the Quran, time passes faster on Earth than in Paradise/Hell. But this agrees with the theory of general relativity which says that time passes slower near bigger mass. Paradise and Hell are much more massive than Earth and time should pass there much slower than on Earth.
Christians believe that God created the universe in 6 earthly days and rested on the 7th. Muslims believe that 6 days passed at God's Throne but we experienced 13.7 billion years on Earth. Moslems believe that God is not bound to His Throne; rather He created it and set it as a reference. The Quran says that God's Throne is even wider than the whole universe, so how about the mass of God's Throne? God's Throne is much more massive than Earth. Time should pass there much slower than on Earth.
Our solar system is 4.57 billion years old. Earth started accreting concurrently with the sun and our neighbouring planets 4.57 bln years ago. However the universe is 13.7 ± 0.2 bln years old. This places the age of Earth at one third the age of the universe (4.57 bln/13.7 bln = 1/3). Moslems say that this is what Allah says. The Quran says that in God's Throne time Earth is 2 days old while the Heavens, Earth and everything in between are 6 days old (2/6 = 1/3):
Quote:
[Quran 7.54] And your Lord, Allah, who created the Heavens and the Earth in six days and then settled on the Throne...
Those six days are on the Throne; so the frame of reference for creation is the Throne, not Earth.
[Quran 41.9] Say: "Is it that you deny Him [Allah] who created the Earth in two days? And you claim others to be equal to Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds."
[Quran 50.38] And we have created the Heavens and Earth and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN in six days and We were not touched by fatigue.


All those days are on the Throne; the frame of reference for creation is the Throne. When God says that He created the Heavens, Earth and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN (including you and me) in six days this means that He is referring to the period of existence. Earth has been in existence for 2 days (out of 6).
Muslims believe that God sustains all living things. And all His commands to the angels to sustain man and animals were inscribed on the Preserved Tablet. The Quran says that not even a leaf would drop on Earth without it being previously recorded on this Preserved Tablet. God says that He inscribed this Preserved Tablet before the creation of Earth started; He answered our prayers today (as commands for the angels on the Preserved Tablet) during the first four days when Earth was still smoke. After this He ordered Earth to form.
Quote:
[Quran 41.9-12] Say: "Is it that you deny Him [Allah] who created the Earth in two days? And you claim others to be equal to Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds." He set on it (Earth) mountains, and bestowed it with blessings. And [Allah] estimated all its sustenance in four days, equally for those who ask (prayers) AFTER THIS (Thumma in Arabic) [Allah] commanded the heaven and it was still smoke. He said to it and to Earth: "Come together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come together, in willing obedience". So [Allah] judged them as seven heavens (one above the other) in two days and revealed to each heaven its orders. And We [Allah] adorned the lowest heaven with lights, and protection. Such is the decree of the Exalted; the Knowledgeable.


God answered our prayers today when Earth was still smoke (the first four days). After this (Thumma in Arabic) God ordered Earth to form. The formation of Earth took two days. So our prayers today are already answered on the Preserved Tablet since before the formation of Earth started. Also in the first two days God judged the seven superimposed heavens and revealed His orders to the angels (as instructions on the Preserved Tablet).

In God's Throne time, Earth is 2 days old while the Heavens, Earth and everything in between are 6 days old. This makes the age of Earth to be one third the age of the universe (2/6 = 1/3). Similarly in Earth time, the age of Earth is 4.57 billion years while the age of the universe is 13.7 (that is each day at God's Throne measures around 2.28 billion years on Earth). So according to the Quran:

God's Throne > Paradise/Hell > Earth
The smaller the mass, the faster the time.

We are sure that time is relative, that is, the age of the universe is different for observers with clocks running at different rates. For example, there exists an observer who measures the age of the universe to be 3 billion years, however he also measures the age of Earth to be 1 billion years. But the Quran presented it as a ratio (1/3) and this ratio turned out to be correct for any observer (whatever the clock rate). If the Quran presented it in any form other than a ratio it would have been wrong for different observers.
Quran 32.5 is time vs. distance; this gives us speed of angels which turned out to be the speed of light. However Quran 22.47 and Quran 70.4 are time vs. time (no distance); this is time dilation. Quran 22.47 compares time of Earth with time at Paradise/Hell (1 day vs. 1000 years). While Quran 70.4 compares time on Earth with time in wormholes (1 day vs. 50,000 years).
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 3,832 • Replies: 183

 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:11 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Are you asking a question?
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:18 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Do you think passing on 'quranic' verses, that are fundamental bases of modern physics will makes the western world reconsider what their megalomaniac-zionist rulers and media contrived regulators depict as terroristic, satanic and abominable doctrines?

Well it's about time!
Good post, fellow being.

namaste
HabibUrrehman
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:25 pm
@rosborne979,
I am just sharing the knowledge.
Sturgis
 
  5  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:26 pm
Since humans are the ones that created the idea of and perception of time, your statement means little. Since it was also humans who wrote down and later translated (multiple times) the book which you reference, the value lessens a bit more.

Don't take it so literally.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:28 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
Do you think passing on 'quranic' verses, that are fundamental bases of modern physics will makes the western world reconsider what their megalomaniac-zionist rulers and media contrived regulators depict as terroristic, satanic and abominable doctrines?


Honestly I expect a lot of backlash but that should not stop be sharing the knowledge. Allah guides whom He wills and I hope this could be a source of light for someone.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:52 pm
@Sturgis,
I appreciate your comments.
Quote:
Since humans are the ones that created the idea of and perception of time, your statement means little.


Idea of time is as I mention is based on theory of relatively. You can call the idea of time to be created by man but I think it is inspired by God so we humans can make sense of things in our lives. This idea of time is also one of the blessings which we take as granted.

Going back to my original post, we all know that the theory of relativity is Einstein’s best known discovery. However, many people whose interests are not in any way related to physics are at a loss to understand what this theory signifies. For you this may have little meaning but for me it has very deep meaning. We know theory of relativity is a very recent scientific concept but the fact that it has been described with so elegance in Quran more than 1400 years ago only proves that Quran is word of God.

Quote:
Since it was also humans who wrote down and later translated (multiple times) the book which you reference, the value lessens a bit more.


I respectfully disagree again. You only need to know the history of how Quran is preserved. I know we may have difference of opinion on textual preservation depending on which sources we call reliable and what not but we can focus on something which can be proved to anyone at anytime and that is Quran's oral preservation. Quran has been memorized from the beginning and every generation has memorized this book. In our time and age there are more than 10 million people who have memorized Quran. This prove two things:
1. It is impossible to make any change in Quran because so many people in every generation have been memorizing it.
2. If we all agree to burn every religious book, Muslims can bring back Quran within few hours because it is saved in chests of believers as promised by God.

Quote:
Don't take it so literally.


Finally Muslims reflect on Quran and its verses and what I did in my original post is not literal meaning of Quran verses. I explained those using established scientific facts. It is not taking things in literal meaning but to explain for common audience in an attempt to prove that true message of God should never contradict ESTABLISHED science.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:53 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
I don't think you'll have any backlash.
Not from anyone with a critically-thinking brain, at least.

You have good knowledge to impart - If it benefits just one being in the minutest of ways - It has served a valuable purpose.

I've read and analysed your qur'an.
It's a valuable read.

namaste
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 12:56 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Understood.

Additionally, I'm not trying to dissuade you of your beliefs. I just approach things with caution.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:01 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
If it benefits just one being in the minutest of ways - It has served a valuable purpose.

I've read and analysed your qur'an.
It's a valuable read.

Quran says:
Quote:
“Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.” – Quran 5:32


I hope, with the mercy of Allah I could change life of one human being. I also hope that Quran can change your life as it did mine. The key is to have an open mind and sincerity to your consciousness, as long as these two ingredients are there no one can deny the truth.

Peace!
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:03 pm
@Sturgis,
Quote:
Additionally, I'm not trying to dissuade you of your beliefs. I just approach things with caution.


That's very respectful and right approach and I truly appreciate that.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:06 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
HabibUrrehman wrote:

I am just sharing the knowledge.

More like sharing an STI.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:13 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
I have posted that verse here, more than once (I'm not one who learns chapter and verse by number) I absorb what makes sense and pass it on in my own context.

And those words are echoed in all fundamental belief systems.

When you have only a spider for company your thoughts are free from the babblings of the multitude of brooks (waters) Smile

namaste
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:19 pm
@tsarstepan,
What's an 'STI', please?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:33 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
So, Paradise, Hell and God's Throne are physical locations in the Universe?
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:43 pm
@InfraBlue,
Paradise is derived from paradisa/paradisia - Cyrus' Walled/enclosed garden.
And the' universe' is a 'physical' field.
observable to physical beings.
Did you believe that physicality was all there was?
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:49 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
So, Paradise, Hell and God's Throne are physical locations in the Universe?


What we know from Quran and Hadith is that hell, paradise and Throne are all Allah's creation and have been created already. Let me know if you need references, I can quote those again if you could not find those in my original post. The discussion on these topics will not be of any benefit because none of us have seen it, it is part of belief in unseen things. But what can be beneficial from this post is that Quran and established science always go hand in hand because science is only a portion of knowledge given by Allah to us to prove His signs. If all established scientific facts agree with Quran then I believe one day science will advance to a level that remaining ambiguous facts stated in Quran( facts which science neither agrees nor denies) will be proven without a shadow of doubt.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 01:54 pm
@tsarstepan,
Never mind - I looked it up.

You, Tsarstepan (A MODERATOR ON A2K) have equated Habibs' post to sharing a SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTION.

Bravo.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 02:50 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
Tsarstepan (A MODERATOR ON A2K)


No wonder they delete my discussion topic few days ago on "attributes of Allah."

Anyways there are all sorts of people in this world and since human beings have freedom of will, they can choose whatever they want to practice or believe. At bare minimum, I would expect them to be respectful especially when one is a "moderator" for a public forum.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 Jun, 2019 02:54 pm
@mark noble,
All holy books were written by humans who had their own axe to grind. I don't trust any text written by humans. Especially the ones who claim god told me to write this.
 

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