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Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2021 09:12 am
@Jasper10,
I'm not the one who is confused.

Plenty of people on A2K who claim to be Christian are anything but.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2021 09:36 am
@izzythepush,
You are not confused about what though?… you are not confused about the fact that if good and bad are different and absolute rules apply then you would need to keep these rules perfectly or else you would need stand before a rule Judge?

Is that what you mean?

izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2021 10:21 am
@Jasper10,
I'm not interested in your binary code nonsense.

There's an apocryphal story about Dave Stewart the guitarist from the Eurythmics.

He took a lot of LSD, something like a tab a day everyday for a year.

That bit is not in dispute. The bit that is, is that during this time he created his own language and would only speak in it and no other.

That's like you and your obsession with binary and absolutes. It makes talking to you a waste of time.

For the record I have no problem with Christians, real Christians that is both Spademaster and Bobsal are genuine Christians I get on very well with.

Other A2K posters may claim to be Christian but they don't act very Christian.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2021 11:39 am
@izzythepush,
Fair enough…….you may think my 4 off logic output possibilities is nonsense but it is based upon sound logic……it just is….sorry I can’t change that…

The Christian bible gives a warning to those who buy into HALF logic in Isaiah 5:20…….

bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2021 07:50 am
@NealNealNeal,
The problem is that these principles seem to lead us into a direction where we think by defying God, we are free, when actually we are heading straight into the opposite of freedom. Statism. Typically, the biggest statists are those in rebellion to God. We see this in Samuel, where they elect a king, because living under God's rule wasn't good enough. Then Judges has a bunch of contrived stories about "there was no king in these days, and everyone did what they thought was right." God's rule is an anarchy, but unlike the discipline-less ideal of just doing whatever you want, you live a principled life, precisely so that no one can reign over you.

https://www.simpleliberty.org/giaa/christian_anarchy.htm

The alternative? Living under human ideals. Hitler decides he knows what the perfect world looks like, so he imposes it on everyone. Stalin decides the same. So does Barack Obama with his talk of "muh legacy." So does Trump or Biden, or probably Katy Perry if she ever got in power. The point is, we cannot have a one-size-fits-all ideal. What makes me most happy will not make anyone else happy.

@Frank Apisa, yes, you'd like that wouldn't you? For me to ignore you. But you don't get off that easy. You get to see how asking to defy God, and declare his truth a blind guess actually causes you to be bothered more. Which is the point above. The more we push other people, the more we suffer.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2021 11:18 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

@Frank Apisa, yes, you'd like that wouldn't you? For me to ignore you.


I would not like that at all. My intentions are for you to remain fascinated with me. I enjoy playing with you. You are an above average toy.


Quote:
But you don't get off that easy.


Oh, thank the gods, if they exist.


Quote:
You get to see how asking to defy God, and declare his truth a blind guess actually causes you to be bothered more.


Well, that was a mangled sentence if ever there was one.

So...you blindly guess that there is a god...and that something/something/something causes me to be bothered more.

Okay. You are into blind guesses...so have fun with that one also.

Quote:

Which is the point above. The more we push other people, the more we suffer.


If you are correct, you must be suffering a lot, because you are doing a heap of pushing.

I am not...pushing or suffering.

Stop suffering so much, Bulma, and we can make this a win/win situation.

0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2021 12:34 pm
@Jasper10,
We have to remember that for the most part, present day philosophy and science is based upon only HALF of the logic output possibility combinations of good (1) is bad (0) and bad (0) is good (1) (i.e. binary if you like for izzythepush).As I have said the Christian bible for one does give a warning about this and for good reason.This has resulted in unsound Philosophy AND Science.A science that is still pursuing the gravity theory rather than the magnetism theory which is based upon FULL logic output possibility combinations and confirms how the cosmos and the physical body works.Biased belief systems should not be influencing philosophy and science.

Good is bad and Bad is good philosophy and science has attempted to erase the possibility of a God and absolute rules/ morals…..but why would man wish to do that if there is a God?

This is how it is…why?… because logic says so.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2021 09:26 am
@Jasper10,
Love to see someone define what a god is or is not and how an all powerful and all knowing god could died for that matter.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2021 11:48 am
@BillRM,
Well I suppose an all powerful…all knowing God could do absolutely anything he wants… how he wants and when he wants…..who are we to limit what he could and couldn’t do?….If he feels it is necessary to take on flesh and die and then renew his life back again as the Christian bible claims then who are we say he can’t do that? ….after all our lives on earth are fleeting and we go back to dust still questioning the before we got here and the what will happen after we die….To claim that God doesn’t exist is foolhardy….to claim that it is a possibility that he may or may not exist and HOPE in one or the other is fine….because that is all anyone can do.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2021 08:49 pm
@Jasper10,
Just for the fun of it why would anyone wish that the bible god would exist?

He murderer/wipe out whole groups of men and women and children by means of fire,water or disease or when he did not care to go to trouble to do the killings himself he have his followers do so by the mean of their swords. Being helpful at times by knocking down cities walls so his followers could get to the victims.

Still can remember reading the family bible when I was ten of so and come to the conclusion that this god was evil.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 04:02 am
@BillRM,
Uhhh, let's clear up a misunderstanding here.

God is not killing us. We die, because of our decisions.

That traffic jam on the interstate? Had we been a bit earlier that day, we would have been sideswiped by that truck. It was going to happen, and not because of God. It was going to hapoen because that trucker was pulling all-nighters . That trucker was pulling all-nighters because their boss decided to get greedy and push their deadline forward.

All these chains of decisions, God knows about and tries to prevent. God isn't trying to smite us. We are disobedient (mainly because we aren't certain what God wants, so it's impossible to please him) and run into trouble.

Death happens because the world needs to teach us that life is precious and we must make the most of things (above all people, I do not practice what I preach in this regard; this is why I'm preaching it, so you can gaib the benefit of my failure), and not spend our lives playing video games (like I said).

Well, what about those floods or earthquakes killing people? One, catastrophes are a means of making people band together. A natural disaster tries to kill as few people as possible, but the purpose of misfortune is that trials test us and bring out our worth. This is discussed in Paul's or Peter's letters (can't keep straight who wrote what). We are on this Earth to learn and grow, and people die because of bad decisions. Building houses near fault lines, too close to water, or in a tornado alley. Using substandard materials. Stuff like that isn't God's fault. It's OUR fault.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 04:23 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Uhhh, let's clear up a misunderstanding here.

God is not killing us. We die, because of our decisions.

That traffic jam on the interstate? Had we been a bit earlier that day, we would have been sideswiped by that truck. It was going to happen, and not because of God. It was going to hapoen because that trucker was pulling all-nighters . That trucker was pulling all-nighters because their boss decided to get greedy and push their deadline forward.

All these chains of decisions, God knows about and tries to prevent. God isn't trying to smite us. We are disobedient (mainly because we aren't certain what God wants, so it's impossible to please him) and run into trouble.

Death happens because the world needs to teach us that life is precious and we must make the most of things (above all people, I do not practice what I preach in this regard; this is why I'm preaching it, so you can gaib the benefit of my failure), and not spend our lives playing video games (like I said).

Well, what about those floods or earthquakes killing people? One, catastrophes are a means of making people band together. A natural disaster tries to kill as few people as possible, but the purpose of misfortune is that trials test us and bring out our worth. This is discussed in Paul's or Peter's letters (can't keep straight who wrote what). We are on this Earth to learn and grow, and people die because of bad decisions. Building houses near fault lines, too close to water, or in a tornado alley. Using substandard materials. Stuff like that isn't God's fault. It's OUR fault.


Uhhh...let's clear it up even more.

Bill was talking about the god described in the Bible.

You are talking about your blind guesses about a god...and your blind guesses about what that god is like.

The god of the Bible is one of the most despicable gods ever supposed by humans. It kills and murders and demands the slaughter of all sorts of people by people. It is almost comically demanding, jealous, vindictive, vengeful, and spiteful. In short, the god described in the Bible has just about ever disgusting trait any psychopathic human has ever had.

Bill is asking why anyone would ever hope that kind of god exists.

You are making excuses for the god you blindly guess exists. And the god you blindly guess exists, since you blindly guess the god of the Bible exists, has the traits of a Hitler, Attila, Idi Amin, Stalin, or (perhaps more appropriately) Hannibal Lecter.

Don't be so in dread of what your god might do to you if you are not one of its sheeple. If it exists, it might not be the disgusting demon you suppose it to be.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:22 am
@bulmabriefs144,
I think someone is getting the Devil mixed up with God….God is love according to the Christian bible…God doesn’t do all the evil acts as GUESSED by Frank….God merely takes his restraining hand off the devil who carries them out…As I say take no notice of Frank and his philosophical ideas….he hasn’t the first clue what he is talking about….
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:25 am
Frank said:
Quote:
Don't be so in dread of what your god might do to you if you are not one of its sheeple. If it exists, it might not be the disgusting demon you suppose it to be.

Frank obviously speculates on what that hypothetical, 'not so disgusting God' might be like. And he overtly says he wants more than anything to talk about it, but yet he ignores every invitation to actually do so.

Sounds phony to me.
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 08:01 am
@Leadfoot,
Frank is phoney…take no notice of him…
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 08:19 am
@Jasper10,
Frank may be a lot of things, he's no phoney. He is consistent in everything he says.

G*D evolves, too. He's changed his mind many times He was first a G*D of the law, then he was a G*D of Sacrifice, then a G*D of forgiveness. He changed his mind about the flood, He changed his mind about the sacrifice of Issac, He changed his mind about the law: Christ announced he was tearing down the Temple, the that there was only one law - treat others as you'd be treated and believe.
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 08:32 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Consistently wrong you mean ???
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 08:39 am
@Jasper10,
He's consistent and even when we disagee (on religion, specifically) his argument is clear and understandable and most of all, consistent.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 08:58 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

He's consistent and even when we disagee (on religion, specifically) his argument is clear and understandable and most of all, consistent.


Thank you, Bobsal. We do differ on the "god" issue, but you seem to argue the issue reasonably.

Apparently someone, apparently Jasper is getting on me about something. I have him on IGNORE...so I am not sure of the issue.
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2021 09:02 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Just for the fun of it why would anyone wish that the bible god would exist?

He murderer/wipe out whole groups of men and women and children by means of fire,water or disease or when he did not care to go to trouble to do the killings himself he have his followers do so by the mean of their swords. Being helpful at times by knocking down cities walls so his followers could get to the victims.

Still can remember reading the family bible when I was ten of so and come to the conclusion that this god was evil.


I worship the God of the Bible because He exists. He is worthy of our worship.
The Bible says that God CREATED all things, including humans. People are NOT the center of the universe. We are responsible to a holy God.
It greatly benefits us when we acknowledge who God is. When we live according to God's will there is more love, joy, p4ace, patience, kindness, goodness, and self control in our lives. This is despite the fact that circumstances may be rather bad.
As for our future, the results are at polar opposites
Those who trust and obey God are blessed by God. Those who do not face the consequences of their decision.
0 Replies
 
 

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