19
   

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

 
 
AugustineBrother
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2016 11:38 am
@Greatest I am,
It is egotistical to answer from emotion before you have facts for a basis.
Is it true that God made us in His Image ? And why? Without those questions and facts you are stewing in egotism.

Notice that your 2 basic assumptions are totally wrong...

This is Pope Benedict

" { Duns Scotus ] held that the Son of God would have been made man even if humanity had not sinned. He says in his "Reportatio Parisiensis": "To think that God would have given up such a task had Adam not sinned would be quite unreasonable! I say, therefore, that the fall was not the cause of Christ's predestination and that if no one had fallen, neither the angel nor man in this hypothesis Christ would still have been predestined in the same way" (in III Sent., d. 7, 4). This perhaps somewhat surprising thought crystallized because, in the opinion of Duns Scotus the Incarnation of the Son of God, planned from all eternity by God the Father at the level of love is the fulfilment of creation and enables every creature, in Christ and through Christ, to be filled with grace and to praise and glorify God in eternity. Although Duns Scotus was aware that in fact, because of original sin, Christ redeemed us with his Passion, Death and Resurrection, he reaffirmed that the Incarnation is the greatest and most beautiful work of the entire history of salvation, that it is not conditioned by any contingent fact but is God's original idea of ultimately uniting with himself the whole of creation, in the Person and Flesh of the Son."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2016 03:00 pm
@AugustineBrother,
Logic 101: it's not a sacrifice if they die and come back to life.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2016 06:37 pm
@AugustineBrother,
Nonsense.
Jesus' life and sacrifice became necessary as a result of the challenge and allegations made by the resistor in the third chapter of Genesis. Note that in vs 15, the rebel's demise is foretold as well as the sacrifice made by the seed.

And to answer CI, it is (was) a sacrifice. Satan spared no amount of pain and humiliation in Jesus' execution. An execution undeserved because Jesus had lived his life without sin.

You pretty much nailed the OP's personality, though.
AugustineBrother
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2016 01:21 pm
@Greatest I am,
Ego is forcing yourself on others while abusing them with charges of barbarism.
Jesus acted from love. You are barbaric and so all looks barbaric to you.
AugustineBrother
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2016 01:23 pm
@dalehileman,
But this is backwards. All things are possible to God, What you see as impossible shows a limitation of either will (=love) or of intellect on your part. That God doesn't do what you THINK He should, He being omniscient, you being puny and self-absorbed -- shows the limits of your thought.

And that is of necessity, speaking of necessity.
AugustineBrother
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2016 01:24 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
By the way you are an object lesson in what is wrong with Private Interpretation and Sola Scriptura.n
0 Replies
 
AugustineBrother
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2016 01:29 pm
@Greatest I am,
But you avoid the whole question !! What does omnipotence have to do with it ?
And how can you apply 'most likely' to God ?? God is responsible for all else, there is no influence that makes likelihood even applicable !!

Star Trek -- figures you have no mental signpost except the movies.
AugustineBrother
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2016 01:30 pm
@neologist,
In a debate you can 'stipulate' -- that is, you say that even if Jesus were God , and then you give your answer. You just avoid giving an answer, pure and simple.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 05:42 am
@Johnjohnjohn,
Johnjohnjohn wrote:

John 1:14
Quote:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.


John 1:1
Quote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


??


As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Note where your WORD came from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUmKEH9jnu8

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 05:47 am
@AugustineBrother,
AugustineBrother wrote:

It is egotistical for you to thing God must have your views, motivations, and goals. That is egotistical to the point of : Dumb

If God made you in His Image you first have to find out why He did that, then the rest is cooking pasta


In the image of God is what A & E were to have been created in.

You forget that they were even too dumb to know they were naked and did not have a moral sense.

Our God begins in us in that same horrid condition and it is to us to teach him morals.

You have just accepted his morals and that is why you put your faith in a salvific Jesus and barbaric human sacrifice.

Get civilized.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 05:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

God didn't really die. It was a short sleep. Dying means never to get up again. It's not a sacrifice when they come back to life.


This is true.

Belief is one thing, bu to let that belief corrupt your morals is quite different and that is what Christians have done.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Yet Christians do not care and have sold their souls to Satan out of fear of hell.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 05:53 am
@AugustineBrother,
AugustineBrother wrote:

It is egotistical to answer from emotion before you have facts for a basis.
Is it true that God made us in His Image ? And why? Without those questions and facts you are stewing in egotism.

Notice that your 2 basic assumptions are totally wrong...

This is Pope Benedict

" { Duns Scotus ] held that the Son of God would have been made man even if humanity had not sinned. He says in his "Reportatio Parisiensis": "To think that God would have given up such a task had Adam not sinned would be quite unreasonable! I say, therefore, that the fall was not the cause of Christ's predestination and that if no one had fallen, neither the angel nor man in this hypothesis Christ would still have been predestined in the same way" (in III Sent., d. 7, 4). This perhaps somewhat surprising thought crystallized because, in the opinion of Duns Scotus the Incarnation of the Son of God, planned from all eternity by God the Father at the level of love is the fulfilment of creation and enables every creature, in Christ and through Christ, to be filled with grace and to praise and glorify God in eternity. Although Duns Scotus was aware that in fact, because of original sin, Christ redeemed us with his Passion, Death and Resurrection, he reaffirmed that the Incarnation is the greatest and most beautiful work of the entire history of salvation, that it is not conditioned by any contingent fact but is God's original idea of ultimately uniting with himself the whole of creation, in the Person and Flesh of the Son."


The first thing you learn from Christianity is that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. Right?

Then you have lying priests who start to ream off all they know and fathom of a God they say they cannot know or fathom.

Only the most foolish faithful can listen to a priest and not know that he is lying.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 05:56 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Nonsense.
Jesus' life and sacrifice became necessary as a result of the challenge and allegations made by the resistor in the third chapter of Genesis. Note that in vs 15, the rebel's demise is foretold as well as the sacrifice made by the seed.

And to answer CI, it is (was) a sacrifice. Satan spared no amount of pain and humiliation in Jesus' execution. An execution undeserved because Jesus had lived his life without sin.

You pretty much nailed the OP's personality, though.


Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

This Bishop says that your immoral belief is what will kill the church.

I think he is right as no God who is such a prick can last long in a moral society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 06:18 am
@AugustineBrother,
AugustineBrother wrote:

Ego is forcing yourself on others while abusing them with charges of barbarism.
Jesus acted from love. You are barbaric and so all looks barbaric to you.


The God of the Trinity which includes Jesus did not act out of love.

Love would forgive without the demand of a barbaric human sacrifice of a Father's Son.

As above so below.

Show us your morals. If you set a price, sacrifice or bribe to forgive mankind it's sins, would you as a parent step up to your own demands, or would you send your child to die?

If you send your child then you show that you are as vile of a parent as your God shows himself to be. Children are to bury parents and not parents bury their children.

What is your answer.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 06:19 am
@AugustineBrother,
AugustineBrother wrote:

But this is backwards. All things are possible to God, What you see as impossible shows a limitation of either will (=love) or of intellect on your part. That God doesn't do what you THINK He should, He being omniscient, you being puny and self-absorbed -- shows the limits of your thought.

And that is of necessity, speaking of necessity.


Hogwash. God cannot make a man who will not sin.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 06:21 am
@AugustineBrother,
AugustineBrother wrote:

But you avoid the whole question !! What does omnipotence have to do with it ?
And how can you apply 'most likely' to God ?? God is responsible for all else, there is no influence that makes likelihood even applicable !!

Star Trek -- figures you have no mental signpost except the movies.


If God is responsible for all to you, ask him to stop creating evil.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
33export
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 06:30 am
Most folks get the version of JC's crucifixion in the King James version of the New Testament. Not a terribly disinterested coverage, to say the least.

Politics in its fundamental form - took the Romans years to realize that until Constantine made believing it law - with terrible consequences for nonbelievers. In a word, Peter was Jesus' top salesman. I like the tale of Constantine's conversion - the vision thing.
High Strangeness
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 10:35 am
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?...
Jesus preached that we should develop a humble character with little self-pride"

Firstly, Jesus wasn't God, he made that clear many times, eg-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgement Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)


Secondly, Jesus wants us to be kool, calm, goodnatures and fearless, that's what "humble" means in that context.
All true Christians are like Arnie's Terminator, soft and fleshy on the outside but with an inner skeleton of pure titanium..Smile-
"For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power.." (2 Tim 1:7)
"..that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured" (Col 4:12)



Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2016 05:19 pm
@33export,
33export wrote:

Most folks get the version of JC's crucifixion in the King James version of the New Testament. Not a terribly disinterested coverage, to say the least.

Politics in its fundamental form - took the Romans years to realize that until Constantine made believing it law - with terrible consequences for nonbelievers. In a word, Peter was Jesus' top salesman. I like the tale of Constantine's conversion - the vision thing.


Have you ever squinted up at the sun, or even a street light?

You will see a cross. Fools will think it a sign from God.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2016 05:24 pm
@High Strangeness,
High Strangeness wrote:

Quote:
Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?...
Jesus preached that we should develop a humble character with little self-pride"

Firstly, Jesus wasn't God, he made that clear many times, eg-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgement Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)


Secondly, Jesus wants us to be kool, calm, goodnatures and fearless, that's what "humble" means in that context.
All true Christians are like Arnie's Terminator, soft and fleshy on the outside but with an inner skeleton of pure titanium..Smile-
"For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power.." (2 Tim 1:7)
"..that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured" (Col 4:12)




I agree that Jesus is not God but I have a hard time convincing Christians of that regardless of the quote you and I use.

The reason being of course is that Christians fear to lose their get out of hell free card.

That is also why they accept that substitutionary atonement, the punishing of the innocent instead of the guilty, is somehow good justice.

Pathetic to be that brain dead and immoral really. All for an imaginary God.

Regards
DL
 

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