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Islamist Goals: Our Shared Islanmist Enemy

 
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 02:54 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This article is suggesting that we see a particular religion as an existential threat. This is not the same as a measured response to stop mass killings, this ic a call for us to hate and fear members of a specific ethnic group.



No it is not "a call for us to hate and fear members of a specific ethnic group." The hate and fear is the result of believing that a specific group MIGHT BE an existential threat. Cosmopolitan thinking does not exist throughout society. That might just be the reality; just like the reality that everyone does not go to college, or does not read books, or is only in his/her comfort zone with people of like religion. So, if one is realistic, then one should not be surprised that the knee-jerk reaction to people that are different is oftentimes less than friendly.

And, if I remember correctly, you are from the Boston environs, and that city was not always known as a bastion of liberalism. Are you aware of that?

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 02:59 pm
@Foofie,
Read the original post again, and then ask yourself if you would accept this type of vile attack against Jews, or any other ethnic group (other than Muslims).

My posts on this thread are in response to the article in the original post, although I do think this type of hateful rhetoric is all to common in the US.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 03:01 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
No it is not "a call for us to hate and fear members of a specific ethnic group." The hate and fear is the result of believing that a specific group MIGHT BE an existential threat.


There are people who believe that Jews might be an existential threat. Do you agree that these people are bigots?

My point is that these attacks (even couched in the words "might be") against Jews, or any other minority ethnic group, should be challenged. Don't you agree?

Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 03:25 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
No it is not "a call for us to hate and fear members of a specific ethnic group." The hate and fear is the result of believing that a specific group MIGHT BE an existential threat.


There are people who believe that Jews might be an existential threat. Do you agree that these people are bigots?

My point is that these attacks (even couched in the words "might be") against Jews, or any other minority ethnic group, should be challenged. Don't you agree?




Bringing the Jews into this discussion is cheap and false. There is nothing in Judiasm or the culture calling for the death of nonbelievers. Further, the Jews do not target innocents.

I guess you have heard of 9/11, in which the Muslims murdered over 3,000 innocents. I assume you have also heard about the numerous bombings in Israel of pizza and bingo parlors, public buses, etc., carried out by Muslims.

You should be more concerned about your credibility.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 03:37 pm
@Advocate,
Bigotry is bigotry. What you are saying about the Muslims is the same thing that antisemites say about the Jews.

People have accused the Jews of wanting to kill "nonbelievers". People have accused the Jews of seeking world domination. People accused the Jews of targeting innocents. And people blame the Jews for massacres. What you are doing is no different than any other type of hate, you are only claiming that in your case bigotry is justified.

Bigotry should be opposed no matter what ethnic group is being targeted.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 03:50 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Bigotry is bigotry. What you are saying about the Muslims is the same thing that antisemites say about the Jews.

People have accused the Jews of wanting to kill "nonbelievers". People have accused the Jews of seeking world domination. People accused the Jews of targeting innocents. And people blame the Jews for massacres. What you are doing is no different than any other type of hate, you are only claiming that in your case bigotry is justified.

Bigotry should be opposed no matter what ethnic group is being targeted.



You are just throwing out more bogus, anti-Semetic, trash. The Jews are into defending themselves, just like everyone else. No one charges that Jews are out to kill nonbelievers. Have you no shame!
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 03:57 pm
@Advocate,
You are the one throwing out bogus anti-Semitic trash. I am opposing it. It is wrong to throw this trash against Jews. It is wrong to throw this trash against Muslims.

I oppose it either way.
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 07:53 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Read the original post again, and then ask yourself if you would accept this type of vile attack against Jews, or any other ethnic group (other than Muslims)...



What do you mean "accept"? I just avoid anti-Semites (and most others I do not share fondness for). I have no negative feelings towards many groups that are not popular; however, knowing they may not relate well to me, I have nothing to do with people of those groups. I really live in a small world, with no desire to be liked by everyone, so it does not bother me that many do not relate well to me. You seem to be quite concerned as to whom does not like whoever? Why the unrealistic concerns? Earning brownie points for Heaven, perhaps?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 07:56 pm
@Foofie,
The reason that I am on this thread is because it is founded on an article that launches a defamatory attack on an ethnic group.

This type of bigotry shouldn't be accepted (against Jews, Muslims, Italians or anyone else).

That is why I am here on this thread.

Why are you here?
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 07:57 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
No it is not "a call for us to hate and fear members of a specific ethnic group." The hate and fear is the result of believing that a specific group MIGHT BE an existential threat.


There are people who believe that Jews might be an existential threat. Do you agree that these people are bigots?

My point is that these attacks (even couched in the words "might be") against Jews, or any other minority ethnic group, should be challenged. Don't you agree?




I choose to not be conerned with your concerns, so your question is misdirected to me. In my opinion, your continued soliciting of my feelings towards others is disenfranchising me from my civil right to just be a good citizen and not mind everyone's business. I hope you transcend your concerns one day; it might be good for one's daily mood.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 08:02 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You are the one throwing out bogus anti-Semitic trash. I am opposing it. It is wrong to throw this trash against Jews. It is wrong to throw this trash against Muslims.

I oppose it either way.



It is wrong to throw trash. That is called littering.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 08:05 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The reason that I am on this thread is because it is founded on an article that launches a defamatory attack on an ethnic group.

This type of bigotry shouldn't be accepted (against Jews, Muslims, Italians or anyone else).

That is why I am here on this thread.

Why are you here?



I am here because my grandparents left Czarist Russia in the late 19th century.

Why do you include Italians in your list of ethnics? Why not some other ethnic groups that were not always loved?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 08:27 pm
@InfraBlue,
What red herrings?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 08:41 pm
@maxdancona,
That question is pretty easy to answer, it's not worse that any other mass murder.

The distinction you fail to recognize between the mass murders of lunatics and the mass murders of an organized group with a common motivation is that the latter is easier to thwart if we accept their commonality.

I might argue that from a purely moral perspective, the criminally insane are not on the same level of immorality as the criminally sane, but that's not my point.

Ignoring the religious motivation of Islamists because of some politically correct aversion to "bigotry" is absurd. Whether or not they are representative of Muslims in general or have grossly corrupted the teachings of Islam, their religious beliefs are clearly a common platform for their violence.

I've not "mixed up" any issues. You have been unable to view the issue I have addressed in any terms other than bigotry.

Once again, I've not defended or supported Advocate or the article he posted, and yet you continue to bring both up in your discussion with me. If you want to rail against either do so in a proper context.

I doubt you could have any discussion on this issue without accusing someone of bigotry. It's your default position.



0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 08:42 pm
@RABEL222,
Obviously I am talking about the murders of Islamists. Are you really so dense or do you think you are being clever?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 08:53 pm
@maxdancona,
Good Lord but you are firmly stuck on this silly notion that a negative reaction to Islam constitutes ethnic bigotry.

I can only assume that you somehow believe ethnic bigotry to be a trump card that cannot be overcome.

I have repeated ad nauseum that I do not find Islam to be evil or offensive, but suggesting that everyone who does is really just a hater of camel jockey Arabs is ridiculous. This doesn't make those who broadly condemn Islam and all Muslims rational, just not bigots based on ethnicity.

In trying to understand this obsession of yours, I am led to believe that you don't really have a problem with bigotry as respects religion, and so in order for you to meet Advocate on the field of battle, you have to convert his bigotry to ethnicity with which you have a very great problem.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 May, 2013 06:19 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn,

The principle is simple.

Every ethnic group, and every religion, should be treated the same in a modern, civilized democracy. I feel very strongly that my society should offer the same respect same rights and the same dignity to people of all ethnic backgrounds. If this principle is an "obsession" then I suppose I am OK with that.

We have worked very hard to overcome the bigotry against Jews in this country. This is a very good thing and I am proud of my country for the progress that we have made.

But if you took your last post, and said that suggest that everyone who finds Judaism to be "evil or offensive" isn't a hater or a bigot, I would react just as strongly but this time I would be joined Advocate and Foofie (and most other decent Americans).

The hypocrisy in this thread is clear. It is OK to slander some ethnic groups, but not OK to slander others.

If I am "obsessed" about bigotry, at least I am consistant about it.

igm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 May, 2013 06:25 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

... in a modern, civilized democracy. I feel very strongly that my society should offer the same...

Civilized??? ... right to bear assault rifles !!!???
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 10 May, 2013 06:48 am
@igm,
igm wrote:


Civilized??? ... right to bear assault rifles !!!???


You are exercising your right to be a stupid ass !!!
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 May, 2013 09:10 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

We have worked very hard to overcome the bigotry against Jews in this country. This is a very good thing and I am proud of my country for the progress that we have made.



Well, close but no cigar. While most folks do not see Jews as a threat to America (perhaps, because the perception is that Jews are too busy caring about Israel?), many still have distinct negative stereotypes about Jews that do make them social pariahs in many venues. In other words, in my opinion, there are still many Americans that see Jews as a group that may "take over" this or that (I wonder what motivates some of the hostility to me on this forum?). Or, Jews compete so well that as an example, if Jews move into an area, their kid might not have a shoe-in as class valedictorian.

Actually, if one was totally honest, one would admit that of those groups that seem to be experiencing less bigotry, of late, it might be because that respective group has found a utilitarian niche in American society. So, while few are rushing to invite a Jew to dinner, many do like when a Jewish teacher helps their reading challenged child to read at grade level, or a Jewish doctor gets their kid/wife/self healthy, or a Jewish dentist makes a nice crown, or a Jewish lawyer wins a case, or a Jewish entertainer makes one's evening more pleasurable with entertainment. It all comes down to utility in a post slavery world.

I really think that if groups did not find themselves a useful nich, there would be a lot more bigotry. But, don't be disillusioned to think that bigotry against Jews is not alive and well; it is just more covert, with less acting out. I firmly believe a vast majority of Americans do believe that Jews are "inherently" different from non-Jews. That constitutes bigotry, since no one is "inherently" different (from birth).

However, I do give Americans an A+ for effort, and I do believe that only in a majority Protestant country could Jews get a chance to "play fairly" in society.
0 Replies
 
 

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