What's the point of Patriotism?

I think I've figured out that my first post was wrong. Scrat, you have changed my mind. I think that the point of patriotism is to divide us. And that's not a bad thing.

The fact is that most people feel patriotism, and that leads me to believe that we need it. At this point, the world hasn't evolved to the point where we don't need to divide ourselves (countries, religious beliefs, race, etc.).

In fact, it's probably one of the main reasons we've survived this long. I think America has probably done more to help make the world a better place than any other modern society in such a relatively short amount of time, and that is a good thing.

Freedom is a pretty f*cking cool idea.

I reserve the right to change my mind next week and start railing about patriotism being bullshit again.

Craven - can you clarify "both share the root that is empathy"?

Why do you see the familial bond as becoming more necessary - just as it seems to be weakening?

I think Patriotism is not much different from feeling connected with your family, passionate about your highschool sports team, affection for your state, pride in your community, etc. It is the healthy human condition to need to belong, to be a part of something larger than the individual alone.

Patriotism is believing your country is the best place for you to be despite its shortcomings, warts, and blemishes. Patriotism is believing national values are worth defending even when that defense is paid for in blood and treasure.

The United States has much to commend it and much to condemn it. But only those who want to be here have to be here. We all have the right to go elsewhere any time we want. Yet only a tiny handful of citizens choose to go elsewhere while millions upon millions of people elsewhere would come here if they could. Knowing that, how bad could we be?


Those of you who hate this country, hate this government, hate who we are and what we are about, why not go find some place more to your liking? I think I'll do better just sticking around here with those others who choose to stay.

Foxfyre

dlowan wrote:

Craven - can you clarify "both share the root that is empathy"?

Birds of a feather flock together. On small and large scales.

Quote:

Why do you see the familial bond as becoming more necessary - just as it seems to be weakening?

One reason is because it is weakening, and IMO the continued weakening will become more and more of a societal bane.

kickycan wrote:

I think I've figured out that my first post was wrong. Scrat, you have changed my mind. I think that the point of patriotism is to divide us. And that's not a bad thing.

The fact is that most people feel patriotism, and that leads me to believe that we need it. At this point, the world hasn't evolved to the point where we don't need to divide ourselves (countries, religious beliefs, race, etc.).

In fact, it's probably one of the main reasons we've survived this long. I think America has probably done more to help make the world a better place than any other modern society in such a relatively short amount of time, and that is a good thing.

Freedom is a pretty f*cking cool idea.

I reserve the right to change my mind next week and start railing about patriotism being bullshit again.

I hope you feel at home in the company of your fellow self-proclaimed patriots: Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, etc.

Even if patriotism is a good thing, it seems society as a whole has a serious misconception about its definition.

kickycan wrote:

I think I've figured out that my first post was wrong. Scrat, you have changed my mind. I think that the point of patriotism is to divide us. And that's not a bad thing.

The fact is that most people feel patriotism, and that leads me to believe that we need it. At this point, the world hasn't evolved to the point where we don't need to divide ourselves (countries, religious beliefs, race, etc.).

In fact, it's probably one of the main reasons we've survived this long. I think America has probably done more to help make the world a better place than any other modern society in such a relatively short amount of time, and that is a good thing.

Freedom is a pretty f*cking cool idea.

I reserve the right to change my mind next week and start railing about patriotism being bullshit again.

Hmm - most people feel jealousy and envy and rage and a whole host of emotions that we must deal with and, often, resist . Does this mean thay are a good thing? Unless you consider the act of resisting them is a good in itself!

Hmmm - if we have not evolved past the need to divide ourselves, is it good to be celebrating something which hinders us in this process? Ought we not rather to be observing it dispassionately, seeking to understand it, and trying to lessen its impact?

Serious question! This is what I often try to do with my own patriotic feelings - except where I view them as harmless and fun - as with the Olympics and such.

Interesting. You assumed that because I said something good about my country that I don't acknowledge that it has done bad things. I already admitted I had (and have) a big problem with the war in Iraq, and there are a lot of other things that aren't so great either.

And then you lumped me into a group of people you don't agree with. Their opinions are not mine, so please give me a break. There's a lot of gray area there between Rush Limbaugh and Noam Chomsky.

....just in case anyone thought I was a one-sided, biased America-hater like Ironlion is. :wink:

kickycan wrote:

Interesting. You assumed that because I said something good about my country that I don't acknowledge that it has done bad things. I already admitted I had (and have) a big problem with the war in Iraq, and there are a lot of other things that aren't so great either.

No, I didn't.

I think its more "interesting" that you "assumed" I did.

I hope you feel at home in the company of your fellow self-proclaimed patriots: Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, etc.

IronLionZion wrote:

]I hope you feel at home in the company of your fellow self-proclaimed patriots: Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, etc.

I gotta tell ya, that sounds a lot like you lumping me in with them. I get the point you were making though, so whatever.

kickycan wrote:

....just in case anyone thought I was a one-sided, biased America-hater like Ironlion is. :wink:

The self proclaimed patriots don't need any help exalting the virtues of the American empire.

I like to go where I'm needed.

IronLionZion wrote:

kickycan wrote:

....just in case anyone thought I was a one-sided, biased America-hater like Ironlion is. :wink:

The self proclaimed patriots don't need any help exalting the virtues of the American empire.

I like to go where I'm needed.

Like Batman?

kickycan wrote:

....just in case anyone thought I was a one-sided, biased America-hater like Ironlion is. :wink:

The self proclaimed patriots don't need any help exalting the virtues of the American empire.

I like to go where I'm needed.

IronLionZion wrote:

I like to go where I'm needed.

Like Batman?

kickycan wrote:

IronLionZion wrote:

]I hope you feel at home in the company of your fellow self-proclaimed patriots: Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, etc.

I gotta tell ya, that sounds a lot like you lumping me in with them. I get the point you were making though, so whatever.

The sarcasm in that paragraph - which was apparently lost on you - was implied by the second paragraph. Or so I had hoped.

Personally, I like to think of myself as Jesus Christ.

Caprice! Good to hear from you! Haven't seen you in a while. Not since the broom closet near the A2K chatroom the other day. Did you see the A2K chatroom thread that Gus started, by the way?

****, I am totally not connecting with you tonight at all am I? Okay, sarcasm, got it. Guess I just had to get to know you a little better, heh, Jesus?