"There was two Mini Cooper parked in front of my house", or "there WERE two mini coopers"?

@spendius,

Quote:

Actually, I think the whole position of attacking prescriptivism based on one or two examples of usages which have gone out of fashion is a solecism.

Quote:

Coming up: lecture in Seattle
February 4, 2013 @ 2:37 am· Filed by Geoffrey K. Pullum under

Announcements, Ignorance of linguistics, Language and education, Prescriptivist poppycock, Usage advice

One week from tomorrow (Tuesday) night I give my Jesse and John Danz Lecture at the University of Washington in Seattle. And although the summary published on the registration page is entirely accurate, I would still conjecture that as many as half the people planning to attend will think that the scandal is people who write bad. They will assume that I will be dinging ordinary folks for writing (and speaking) ungrammatically. Little will they know what lies in store: that my target is the grammarians. It is the rule-givers and knuckle-rappers and nitpickers that I will be castigating for their ignorance of the content of the principles of English syntax.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=5

That would be the ignoramuses like you, Spendi, if you actually knew anything about the principles of English syntax. But you don't. You simply castigate and pontificate about language issues, which, by your own admission, you know little to nothing about.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Finally, a tiny measure of honesty, Frank.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

Unsupported assertion.

See Post: # 5,264,998

See Post: # 5,264,988

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@JTT,

Quote:

One week from tomorrow (Tuesday) night I give my Jesse and John Danz Lecture at the University of Washington in Seattle.

I wouldn't put that out under my name.

"I plan to deliver my Danz Lecture at the University of Washington on March 4th starting at 7 p.m."

He's fortune telling for a start. And to "give" implies a receiver so he has assumed someone will turn up. Which is presumptuous. (i.e. ignorant). And "in Seattle" is unnecessary because anybody likely to be interested will know where the University of Washington is located.

And the night lasts from dusk to dawn.

The construction is also clumsy but I accept that's only an opinion.

He also must think that we don't know it's Monday today.

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@JTT,

In case you haven't noticed, Spendi, Post: # 5,264,988 comes right after your post wherein you bleat "unsupported assertion" a number of times.

0 Replies

@spendius,

You're dithering, Spendius. But that's what you do best.

And you are avoiding discussing that nonsense you posted about one or two prescriptions, but that's explained by your dithering.

Are we to take it that this dithering forms your assertions of excellence?

0 Replies

@JTT,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5264965)
Finally, a tiny measure of honesty, Frank.

Does that mean "Yes, you did watch the Oscars"...or "NO, I did not watch the Oscars?"

1 Reply

@spendius,

A little shack by the ocean had a sign. Fresh Fish For Sale Here.

Well, of course they're for sale Here. Where else would they be?

Yes, they're fresh. They're located on the ocean, so why bother saying they are fresh?

For Sale. Well, did anyone expect them to be given away.

Final sign: FISH

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank A: I appreciate the points you are making about how some of the prescriptive grammar rules help us in discussions of a more rigorous nature than just casual conversation. In my opinion, you are absolutely correct.

Frank A: JTT uses prescriptive devises[sic] in his posts (the positioning of nouns and verbs…order of subjects and predicates)…so despite his protestations…well, you can finish that sentence yourself.

Frank, you advance these two lies and when it is pointed up to you all you do is avoid avoid avoid.

Why can't a guy who brags about how good he was in school in grammar and language, a guy who brags about how his language prowess got his letters to the editor accepted AND published even defend his own positions on the stuff he pretends he is so good at?

1 Reply

@roger,

It's pretty amazing what your education in English has done for you, Rog.

0 Replies

@JTT,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5265049)
Frank A: I appreciate the points you are making about how some of the prescriptive grammar rules help us in discussions of a more rigorous nature than just casual conversation. In my opinion, you are absolutely correct.

Frank A: JTT uses prescriptive devises[sic] in his posts (the positioning of nouns and verbs…order of subjects and predicates)…so despite his protestations…well, you can finish that sentence yourself.

Frank, you advance these two lies and when it is pointed up to you all you do is avoid avoid avoid.

Why can't a guy who brags about how good he was in school in grammar and language, a guy who brags about how his language prowess got his letters to the editor accepted AND published even defend his own positions on the stuff he pretends he is so good at?

Hahahahahahahaha.

Oh, you are such a card, JTT.

I thank you for all the entertainment.

Sometimes, though, it seems as though you are really struggling with this obsession of yours. I certainly wouldn't want to be laughing at that.

0 Replies

@JTT,

Quote:

That would be the ignoramuses like you, Spendi, if you actually knew anything about the principles of English syntax. But you don't. You simply castigate and pontificate about language issues, which, by your own admission, you know little to nothing about.

Tell me what grammatical errors I am making. Not a specific one but generally. My grammar is second nature. I don't remember learning any formal rules so I have nothing to unlearn. I'm a poet, and I know it, and I won't blow it.

There is a grammar to the seduction of a chaste lady. I've got it off Pat.

So also there is a grammar to the frocks at the Oscars. Designers of the frocks know what it is they are attempting to communicate.

And it isn't easy to explain to an audience sold out on Equality.

Mainly because it is completely ridiculous and backs in and out of contradiction like a lady learner driver knocking over traffic cones placed on the runway of a disused airfield by an instructor who is trying to teach her basic handling technique in a safe environment.

Let's see Pull-um write a paragraph as good as that is. It was actually a paragraph. I spaced it merely because I know that A2Kers can't concentrate on bodies of print all that well.

Anybody who can read into it what I had in mind when composing it will be well aware that it represents a distilled essence of what would otherwise take up far too much space for this medium. And most others. It is almost a painting. It's sexy.

Try something along those lines JT before you start giving me little, stupid, homilies on my language use. Any cloth-head can give out little, stupid homilies on any subject under the sun.

What you are really after is getting the prescriptivists in the academic world deselected and replaced by people such as yourselves who cant write themselves out of a flimsy paper bag. Heaven forbid!!!!!

There is a political aspect. Prescriptivism is associated with Latin and Latin is associated with the Church. I don't suppose I need explain. And I haven't the time anyway.

There's a grammar to finger-wagging as well. I bet you are pretty damn prescriptivist in that genre.

2 Replies

@roger,

But one "little shack" by one little bit of ocean strand is hardly a benchmark to judge anything. I have seen such things that just have a picture of a fish having a frisky fling oe'r the foam.

The fish are not necessarily fresh.

1 Reply

@spendius,

It's an old example of how writing can be simplified.

You're darn right the fish might not be fresh at all. Better not to say so on the sign, then?

1 Reply

@roger,

Quote:

It's an old example of how writing can be simplified.

No, it isn't, Roger. It's simply another fine example of the idiocies you of the Strunk & White generation have absorbed.

0 Replies

@spendius,

Quote:

Tell me what grammatical errors I am making. Not a specific one but generally. My grammar is second nature. I don't remember learning any formal rules so I have nothing to unlearn.

I've explained this many times but you still don't really understand.

I didn't say you made grammatical errors. You do make numerous errors in describing language and how it works.

Here's one, a real doozy, which you have desperately sought to avoid taking responsibility for, in a most dishonest fashion, despite your recent claim that you quickly owe up to your mistakes.

Actually, I think the whole position of attacking prescriptivism based on one or two examples of usages which have gone out of fashion is a solecism.

The rest of your post is Spendius dither illustrating that you still have a poor grasp of the issues surrounding prescriptivism.

Quote:

I've got it off Pat.

Who is Pat?

2 Replies

@JTT,

Quote:

I've explained this many times but you still don't really understand.

I didn't say you made grammatical errors. You do make numerous errors in describing language and how it works.

I think that as a reply to this--

Quote:

Tell me what grammatical errors I am making. Not a specific one but generally. My grammar is second nature. I don't remember learning any formal rules so I have nothing to unlearn.

is nether prescriptivist or descriptivist. It's pure shite.

As is this--

Quote:

The rest of your post is Spendius dither illustrating that you still have a poor grasp of the issues surrounding prescriptivism.

in reply to this--

Quote:

Actually, I think the whole position of attacking prescriptivism based on one or two examples of usages which have gone out of fashion is a solecism.

.

And I only said "I think".

0 Replies

@spendius,

Quote:

I'm a poet, and I know it, and I won't blow it.

You're an ignoramus and you know it and you keep showin' it.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

You're an ignoramus and you know it and you keep showin' it.

Surely some mistake.

"You're an ignoramus and you know it and you've blown it and you show it.

I think you just like shouting "ignoramus" and "idiot" at people because you are scared to satisfy the urge with those you know.

We have got the picture. Get on with describing language use bearing in mind it is anything anybody wants it to be.

And answer, while your at it, to the political alignment in this debate of radical, leftie proles with descriptivism and hierarchical, elite conservatives with the other side.

0 Replies

@JTT,

Here's one, a real doozy, which you have desperately sought to avoid taking responsibility for, in a most dishonest fashion, despite your recent claim that you quickly owe up to your mistakes.

Actually, I think the whole position of attacking prescriptivism based on one or two examples of usages which have gone out of fashion is a solecism.

You seem to have caught Frank's disease, Spendi.

You statement, above, clearly illustrates your ignorance. But you are off on a Merry dance to avoid addressing it.

This one,

There is a political aspect. Prescriptivism is associated with Latin and Latin is associated with the Church. I don't suppose I need explain.

is a real hoot.

1 Reply

"There was two Mini Cooper parked in front of my house", or "there WERE two mini coopers"?

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