9
   

"There was two Mini Cooper parked in front of my house", or "there WERE two mini coopers"?

 
 
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 12:45 pm
@JTT,
Asserting it's "a hoot" is not an answer. It is a perfectly respectable theory and it is obvious anyway.

That's why the argument between Pees and Dees gets emotional. Improper language use denotes vulgarity and nobody wishes to be thought vulgar. As the Dees are incapable of learning the Pees' language use, for one reason or another, they wish to drag everybody down into the Dees' way of doing. Then their vulgarity will be normal and thus not stand out and be the subject of whispered sarkies or even just suspected of being

As long as there are Pees about the Dees get reminded of their vulgarity all day long unless they are picking turnips with other Dees. It's unavoidable. They sometimes try forcing Peeism on themselves, as my beloved Mother did when she answered the phone or spoke to someone she hardly knew, but that is even more vulgar and sufficient to cause reflexive "behind the hand" tittering.

Ladies' fashions are an attempt to achieve a similar effect. Among other things.

BTW-- "even more" is in order here as I am carefully avoiding any lurches towards the limit of vulgarity. Vulgarity does have an infinity aspect.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 02:09 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Where am I going wrong JT? Keep telling me I'm an idiot doesn't help.



Quote:
I consider that to be drivel. Indeed it is drivel. Pullum by name and pull-um by nature. No wonder you have assertivitus' dance. A power kick lacking the force to give it a point.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 02:10 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Here's one, a real doozy, which you have desperately sought to avoid taking responsibility for, in a most dishonest fashion, despite your recent claim that you quickly owe up to your mistakes.

Actually, I think the whole position of attacking prescriptivism based on one or two examples of usages which have gone out of fashion is a solecism.

You seem to have caught Frank's disease, Spendi.


Why are you so diligently avoiding this, Spendius? Aren't you the guy who said that he was quick to accept his mistakes?

Quote:
It is a perfectly respectable theory and it is obvious anyway.


Two silly assertions from the guy who whines about people making assertions.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 02:52 pm
@JTT,
Avoiding what?

It's you who is avoiding. Don't try asserting that something is silly without saying why.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 03:16 pm
@spendius,
Here's one, a real doozy, which you have desperately sought to avoid taking responsibility for, in a most dishonest fashion, despite your recent claim that you quickly owe up to your mistakes.

Actually, I think the whole position of attacking prescriptivism based on one or two examples of usages which have gone out of fashion is a solecism.

You seem to have caught Frank's disease, Spendi.

==========


Why are you so diligently avoiding this, Spendius? Aren't you the guy who said that he was quick to accept his mistakes?
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 04:06 pm
@JTT,
How the **** can I be avoiding taking responsibility for--

"Actually, I think the whole position of attacking prescriptivism based on one or two examples of usages which have gone out of fashion is a solecism."

when I ******* well wrote it and stand by it, And have said why. How else can I take responsibility for it? It's true. It takes responsibility for itself as well.

Never mind that I "seem to have caught Frank's disease". That's not a point even. It's valueless. It's a gross solecism. It's worse than bullshit because bullshit has value. It is a ridiculous thing to blurt out.

What mistake have I made? Asserting I made a mistake is not evidence that I did.
Frank Apisa
 
  5  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 04:37 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
What mistake have I made?


One mistake you made is taking JTT seriously enough to get angry during a reply to him.

That is what he is aiming for...that always is what he is aiming for.

Indulging him is a BIG mistake.
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 05:11 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
How the **** can I be avoiding taking responsibility for--

"Actually, I think the whole position of attacking prescriptivism based on one or two examples of usages which have gone out of fashion is a solecism."

when I ******* well wrote it and stand by it, And have said why. How else can I take responsibility for it? It's true. It takes responsibility for itself as well.


Of what value is it that a self admitted language boob like you, stands by a silly assertion.

I gave five references from language sources that showed that your "one or two examples" is fatuous in the extreme. Likely, you didn't even read them.





JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 05:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, all you ever do is apisa a situation. You don't address anything honestly. You think you are a master of diversion but your childish lies come back to bite you. The latest one is with genefog2.

From the first time you tried to correct H20man for his natural use of language and your woeful ignorance on language was pointed up, you have failed to honestly address any of the language issues.
spendius
 
  4  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 05:53 pm
@JTT,
Got a problem with "honesty" have you JT?

How naive can a person get?

The more people talk about honesty the more important it is to not leave them alone in a room with any loose change lying about.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 06:04 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Got a problem with "honesty" have you JT?


No, Spendi, just your lack of it.

I gave five references from language sources that showed that your "one or two examples" is fatuous in the extreme. Likely, you didn't even read them.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 06:06 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I gave five references from language sources that showed that your "one or two examples" is fatuous in the extreme. Likely, you didn't even read them.


Okay five or six. A hundred or two doesn't even scratch the surface in this debate.

I used "one or two" figuratively". Don't you even understand poetic licence?

It's the vulgarity issue that has you emotionally engaged. I have it on high academic authority and from my own experience.

You seek to render us all as vulgar us you are so that your vulgarity is less obvious. You're a Leveller. It is a political argument.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 06:11 pm
@spendius,
The BBC thrashed it out over a number of years.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 06:15 pm
@spendius,
It is the problem working class lottery winners have. They are separated from their roots by their wealth and from the rich by their vulgarity which, in language use, is very difficult to correct.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 06:32 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Okay five or six. A hundred or two doesn't even scratch the surface in this debate.


Okay, you finally admitted you were wrong after how many bullshit postings? A self admitted ignoramus on how language ought to be more careful.

Quote:
I used "one or two" figuratively". Don't you even understand poetic licence?


That was not poetic license, Spendi. That illustrated your abysmal ignorance on this issue. That was a plug dumb assertion.

How abysmal? You pull a quote from Strunk & White, not out of the book, which you admit you've never seen and you cough it up as some wisdom from the ages.

When I illustrate just how ignorant you have been with an article from the co-author of The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, you go into one of your famous Spendi whirls.

Quote:
You seek to render us all as vulgar us you are so that your vulgarity is less obvious. You're a Leveller. It is a political argument.


You don't have the mental wherewithal to address the issue long enough to ever find out. You're all over the page, ranting on one disjointed subject after another. You admit that you know nothing about how language works, you illustrate that time after time on these very pages but you still make these silly pronouncements about a subject you know little about.

You keep trying to make this about me. Again, your ignorance leaps to the fore.

Descriptivists aren't the ones who write lies about language. Descriptivists are the ones that note that these silly prescriptions were never followed by all the best writers in English. How have you missed that?


spendius
 
  4  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 06:50 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Okay, you finally admitted you were wrong after how many bullshit postings?


I did not. There's 2 assertions there.

Quote:
A self admitted ignoramus on how language ought to be more careful.


Gross.

Quote:
That was not poetic license, Spendi.


It was indeed. Understatement.

Quote:
That illustrated your abysmal ignorance on this issue. That was a plug dumb assertion.


2 more assertions.

Not at all. What's the difference between "one of two", "five" and "five hundred" when the possibilities are infinite. For all of them read "a small number". Or "few". As in "how many men has she had?" (the office bike)--"Oh--one or two I gather." Slightly sardonic inflection. You seem a bit pedantic JT. One might easily regret that a writer can no longer rely upon an audience that will be satisfied with catching his general drift and his obvious intention and is constrained to keep his eye open warily for pedantic prescriptivists such as yourself who not only don't recognise poetic licence but stubbornly deny its presence when it is pointed out to them.

Quote:
How abysmal? You pull a quote from Strunk & White, not out of the book, which you admit you've never seen and you cough it up as some wisdom from the ages.


It's done all the time. Nothing abysmal about it. The quote made sense to me and I offered it for the use of others if they thought fit.

Quote:
When I illustrate just how ignorant you have been with an article from the co-author of The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, you go into one of your famous Spendi whirls.


Did anybody read through that article? I didn't and thus I am ignorant of how it illustrated my ignorance. But I'm glad my "whirls" are famous.

Quote:
You don't have the mental wherewithal to address the issue long enough to ever find out.


Assertion.

Quote:
You're all over the page, ranting on one disjointed subject after another.


Assertion.

Quote:
You admit that you know nothing about how language works,


It's not for me to judge. Those who read my posts are free to decide on my knowledge of how language works.

Quote:
You keep trying to make this about me. Again, your ignorance leaps to the fore.


It is about you. I have beside me David Crystal's The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language (472 pages of A4) and its contents are such that what you have demonstrated so far is no more knowledge of language and how it works than that of the average member of a bus queue. Thus it can only be about you. And me of course. I even have the Concordance to Joyce's Finnegans Wake which is a tale in which prescriptivism is shredded.

I haven't missed that.

It's the vulgarity problem I'm afraid.

Mr Crystal gives 6 aboriginal variations of the English expression "he will give it to you" (a stone).

Wishram--"will he him thee to give will".

Takeima--"will-give to thee he-or-they-in-future".

Southern Palute--"give will visible-thing visible-creature thee".

Yana--"round-thing away to does-or-will done-unto thou-in-future".

Nootka--"that give will done-unto thou-art".

Navaho--" thee to transitive-marker will round-thing-in-future".

Imagine a GATT treaty JT. Or an inter-state commerce agreement.

I think we might need a bit of prescriptivism to boldly go where no man went before.

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 10:56 am
@spendius,
Good day, Oralloy.
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 11:59 am
@JTT,
Stuck for words again JT?

Maurice Thompson, in a lecture at the Hartford Theological Seminary in 1893, said about realists-

Quote:
They boast of holding up a mirror to nature; but they take care to give preference always to ignoble nature. They never hold up their mirror to heroic nature. Have you observed how, as a man becomes a realist, he grows fond of being narrow, and with playing with small specialties? Have you thought out the secret force which controls the movement of his so-called realism, and always keeps its votaries sneering at heroic life, while they revel in another sort of life, which fitly to characterize here would be improper? I can tell you what that force is. It is unbelief in ideal standards of human aspiration, and it is impatient scorn of that higher mode of thought which has given the world all the greatest creations of imaginative genius.


JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 12:04 pm
@MattDavis,
Quote:
I do feel a little bit like I'm talking to a wall with you JTT.


Matt, your wall was the prescription you advanced. When you were shown that it was not based in reality, you decided on this Plan B. Why can't you deal with the arrant nonsense of the prescriptions? It took a good deal of prodding for you to describe just one prescription.

And yet there were many dealt with in the Pinker article. Did you ever finish the article? Why didn't you want to discuss any of them?

Quote:
Maybe tutor some children?


Have you tutored children, Matt? If so, have you tutored children in English?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 12:28 pm
Considering that this has largely devolved into a dialogue between JTT and Spendius, I wonder how many members here are just seeing a blank page?
 

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