16
   

Lib Dem British MP Castigates Israel

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 01:30 pm
@Foofie,
Your use of "superior" is misplaced; all people have the potential for good or bad. Any individual, regardless of race, culture, ethnicity, or country of origin, has the potential to contribute to mankind.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 01:31 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
I do not hate people who are different. I just care about Americans. Foreigners may go to Mars, for all I care. That is not hate.


It is worse than hate, Foofie. It is the same callous indifference that you, hypocritically, love to chastise others about when it comes to the Jews. You even attempt to do it to those who have nothing at all against Jewish people.

Your attitude is worse than that of those Germans who were taken to the death camps and forced to witness the brutality, the evil, the depravity, the inhumanity. You too have been taken there, to the site of the same kind of evil, this time committed by the USA and your response has always been the equivalent of - MEH!

And most assuredly, certainly not only you.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 01:38 pm
This image of a kid in the sights of a sniper's rifle was allegedly posted on Instgram by an Israeli soldier, Mor Ostrovski and is causing a fuss.

http://bigbrowser.blog.lemonde.fr/files/2013/02/Intifada.jpg
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 01:48 pm
@contrex,
I can see a sniper using their scope to scope out those things within their scope.

I guess the 64 dollar question is why one would publicly post such a picture.
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 02:07 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

I can see a sniper using their scope to scope out those things within their scope.


I can see a sniper with a kid's head in his sight, who posted the shot on Instagram, possibly because he was proud of it.



JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 02:10 pm
@contrex,
Of course we can't know his intentions, C, thought I agree, considering the overall circumstances, it doesn't seem to have been that bright an idea.

I think that the response from the Israeli government [don't know what it is or has been] could be more telling.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 02:28 pm
Apparently such photographs are routinely snapped and circulated by soldiers. The picture has been removed from Facebook along with the soldier's account. The Israeli army has acknowledged the picture, saying it did not correspond with its "values or code of ethics". Last year, another photograph posted on the Facebook page of a 22-year-old Israeli soldier named Nissim Asis showed him licking ketchup-coloured liquid from the point of a knife accompanied by a caption that contained an expletive and described Arab blood as "tasty".

Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 04:37 pm
@contrex,
What is interesting in this matter is that the Pals actually target and kill Israeli kids. This is a far cry from a couple Israeli soldiers who merely dream of shooting a Pal.
contrex
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 04:56 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
dream of shooting a Pal.


You are a hateful creep. You calling Palestinians "Pals" is no different from Ukrainians calling Jews "Zhyds", or Americans calling them "kikes".

Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 05:02 pm
@contrex,
@ Advocate:

Contrex is absolutely correct in this comment. You do your cause no good with what obviously is intended as a slur...or mocking put-down.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 05:30 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

What is interesting in this matter is that the Pals actually target and kill Israeli kids. This is a far cry from a couple Israeli soldiers who merely dream of shooting a Pal.



The IDF target children all the time.


Quote:
A 17-year-old Palestinian has been shot dead by Israeli forces in the northern West Bank.

Palestinian medical sources say Samir Ahmed Awad died after being hit by three bullets in the village of Budrus.

It happened near a school situated about 200m (650ft) from the barrier that Israel has built in the territory.

The mayor of the village, Mohammed Morar, said students had thrown stones at Israeli soldiers as they left the school, before Awad was shot.

"It was the last day of school and some students threw stones. The soldiers caught him and tried to arrest him, but he escaped so they fired six bullets at him," the mayor told the AFP agency.

A different account, reported by the Reuters agency, suggests that Awad was not involved in stone-throwing and was caught up in the incident when he returned to school on a bus for exams.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21029219
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Feb, 2013 05:34 pm
@contrex,
Their contempt for Palestinians go too far for them to hide their bigotry.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 05:00 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Your use of "superior" is misplaced; all people have the potential for good or bad. Any individual, regardless of race, culture, ethnicity, or country of origin, has the potential to contribute to mankind.


And the notion that anyone as profoundly ignorant, (and bigoted) as Foofie could be described as 'superior,' is laughable.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:15 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Advocate wrote:

What is interesting in this matter is that the Pals actually target and kill Israeli kids. This is a far cry from a couple Israeli soldiers who merely dream of shooting a Pal.



The IDF target children all the time.


Quote:
A 17-year-old Palestinian has been shot dead by Israeli forces in the northern West Bank.

Palestinian medical sources say Samir Ahmed Awad died after being hit by three bullets in the village of Budrus.

It happened near a school situated about 200m (650ft) from the barrier that Israel has built in the territory.

The mayor of the village, Mohammed Morar, said students had thrown stones at Israeli soldiers as they left the school, before Awad was shot.

"It was the last day of school and some students threw stones. The soldiers caught him and tried to arrest him, but he escaped so they fired six bullets at him," the mayor told the AFP agency.

A different account, reported by the Reuters agency, suggests that Awad was not involved in stone-throwing and was caught up in the incident when he returned to school on a bus for exams.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21029219


The child was 17 and probably could pass for an adult. Also, he had been attacking Israelis. Moreover, there is no proof that he was killed by an Israeli.

This is a far cry from the Pal attacks on city buses, and pizza parlors full of kids. Also, small Israeli kids were murdered in the WB and left in a cave. The Pals are real beasts.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:18 pm
@Advocate,
You wrote,
Quote:
The child was 17 and probably could pass for an adult


In the US, a 17 year old is still a minor. Your stretching the definition to meet your criteria doesn't wash.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:21 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
The child was 17 and probably could pass for an adult. Also, he had been attacking Israelis. Moreover, there is no proof that he was killed by an Israeli.


He was not involved in throwing stones, but was picked up by the IDF, when he tried to run away they shot him in the back. This sort of thing happens all the time.

This is from a source dated 28th January.
Quote:
At least five unarmed young Palestinians, including a 21-year-old woman, have been shot dead by Israeli soldiers in 13 days since the start of the year, prompting mounting concern about the unwarranted use of live fire. A sixth was killed on his 17th birthday last month, and a seventh death this month is disputed by the Israeli military.

The commander of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) in the West Bank, Brigadier-General Hagai Mordechai has ordered all commanders to reiterate to all soldiers the rules of engagement, a military spokesman told the Guardian.

The use of live fire is permitted only in extreme circumstances, and shooting to kill only in a life-threatening situation. "None of [the dead] posed a threat that justifies the use of lethal force," said Sarit Michaeli, of the Israeli human rights organisation B'Tselem and the author of a report published on Monday which analyses the IDF's use of crowd control weapons in the West Bank. "Swift action by the army is required to transmit a clear message to soldiers that the lives of Palestinians have equal value and that firing live ammunition in non-life threatening situations is illegal."

The youngest to be killed was 15-year-old Salah Amarin, who died last Wednesday, five days after being shot in the head during clashes near Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem. According to the IDF, he had been launching stones from a slingshot.

The same day as Amarin died, Lubna al-Hanash, 22, was shot in the face while walking on a college campus south of Bethlehem. According to the IDF, a routine patrol in the area had opened fire in self-defence after being "confronted by Palestinians with Molotov cocktails". But Suad Jaara, a friend who was injured in the shooting, told the Palestinian news agency Ma'an: "An Israeli soldier was shooting from his rifle while a white car was parked on the roadside. There was no one in the area except Lubna and I."

Sixteen-year-old Samir Awad was shot on 15 January after crossing a fence that forms part of the security barrier near his home in the village of Budrus. He had just completed school exam before a midterm break from school when he was grabbed by soldiers, broke free and ran away. Soldiers opened fire, hitting him from behind in the back and the head. The IDF said Awad was "attempting to infiltrate into Israel".

Three days earlier, Uday Darwish, 21, was also shot in the back while running away from soldiers after attempting to cross the separation barrier south of Hebron, according to Palestinian sources. The IDF said "soldiers at the scene fired towards his legs".

Last month, Mohammed al-Salaymeh was killed by a female soldier at a checkpoint in Hebron while en route to buy a cake to celebrate his 17th birthday. The IDF said he had brandished a toy gun. Grainy video footage of the incident appears to show the youth struggling with a soldier, and then being shot three times. The third and final shot is fired as Salaymeh is leaving the scene.

In Gaza, Anwar al-Mamlouk, 19, was shot in the abdomen 50 metres from the border fence on 11 January by Israeli soldiers, according to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights.

Three days later, a 21-year-old farmer, Mustafa Abu Jarad died after being shot in the head. The IDF denied it was responsible.

According to B'Tselem, IDF regulations say live fire is permissible "in a case of violent rioting by the separation barrier, when there appears to be a real threat of damage to, or breaching of, the barrier, and when less severe methods have proved to be ineffective, the commander of the force may, as a last resort, authorise the firing of single shots of live ammunition at the legs of those people identified as central agitators".

At least 46 Palestinians have been killed since 2005 by live ammunition fired by soldiers at stone-throwers, says its report, Israel's Use of Crowd Control Weapons in the West Bank. The most common crowd control weapons are tear gas, rubber-coated bullets, stun grenades and "skunk" – the use of foul-smelling liquid in water cannon.

"Live ammunition is the most lethal means used by security forces at West Bank demonstrations," says the report. "The Israeli military's standing orders explicitly state that live ammunition may not be fired at stone-throwers."

The IDF said the report relied on "a biased narrative" and "specific incidents … are exceptions to IDF policy rather than the rule". It added: "Every soldier who is expected to contend with these situations regularly trains with riot dispersal means and is carefully taught the rules of engagement."

The Palestinian prime minister Salam Fayyad called for "strong condemnation from the international community" of the recent spate of deaths from live fire, and urged "immediate intervention to compel Israel to desist from these serious attacks on our people".

The UN special co-ordinator for the Middle East peace process, Robert Serry, has also raised concerns about the use of live fire by Israeli soldiers in the West Bank.

In an editorial published before the most recent two deaths, the liberal daily Haaretz said the "basic problem emerging from these cases … is in soldiers and commanders' overly-free interpretation regarding the circumstances permitting killing Palestinian civilians who only approach the fence, or even try to cross it, without endangering the lives of Israeli soldiers or civilians."

It added: "The consecutive incidents in which Palestinians were killed in recent days give the feeling that Palestinian blood may be shed with impunity."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/28/palestinian-deaths-israel-army-live-fire
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:36 pm
@izzythepush,
The so-called kids, many with mustaches and beards, were trying to infiltrate Israel.

BTW, how does shooting them compare with the Pals blowing up a bingo hall full of elderly Jewish women. That is really terrorism of the worst sort. Also, a Jewish man was delivering fuel oil to a WB village and was murdered, evidently because he was a Jew and an Israeli.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 03:39 pm
@Advocate,
Mustaches and beards do not an adult make. They're "trying" to infiltrate Israel? You gotta be kidding!

Palestinians blowing up a bingo hall full of women isn't right, but that doesn't justify the Jews overwhelmingly killing of innocent Palestinians.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 04:09 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Also, a Jewish man was delivering fuel oil to a WB village and was murdered, evidently because he was a Jew and an Israeli.


Yet the general's son had no problem as he ventured into "enemy" territory. You know, A, the guy you haven't listened to yet because he might cause you to question many of your memes.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Feb, 2013 04:39 pm
@Advocate,
You're forgetting who is doing the occupying, it's Israel. In many respects terrorism is the only form of resistance. I'm sure if the Palestinians were as well equipped as the Israelis they could fight a conventional war, and then there would be no need for suicide and car bombings. This is asymmetric warfare, they are an oppressed people resisting an occupation.
 

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