16
   

Lib Dem British MP Castigates Israel

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2013 01:25 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
The fact that women are mistreated and even brutalized in the USA and other places hardly makes it acceptable for the Pals to do this.


But it does highlight your hypocrisy, Advocate.

Quote:
Moreover, it is a prevalent thing in the WB and Gaza.


Israel is 15th in the world in rapes. Does that count for anything?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes




So you would be quite happy to have your daughter (assuming arguendo that you have one) live in a Muslim country. There are not many people in the USA who would want that for their daughter.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2013 01:35 pm
@Advocate,
You wrote,
Quote:
So you would be quite happy to have your daughter (assuming arguendo that you have one) live in a Muslim country.


A non-sequitur if there ever was one!
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2013 05:39 pm
@InfraBlue,
You are absolutely correct that I give no credit to the so-called Right of Return.

This is clearly a ploy to dissolve Israel from within, and one which Israel and anyone not unquestionably wedded (for whatever reason) to Palestinian extremism will, sanely, reject.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2013 06:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
So you would be quite happy to have your daughter (assuming arguendo that you have one) live in a Muslim country.


A non-sequitur if there ever was one!


That is untrue. But I see you will not answer the question.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2013 07:18 pm
@Advocate,
What has anyone's daughter (not Arab or Muslim) living in a Muslim country have to do with this thread?
izzythepush
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 02:32 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
So you would be quite happy to have your daughter (assuming arguendo that you have one) live in a Muslim country. There are not many people in the USA who would want that for their daughter.


I wouldn't want my daughter to live in the USA. I don't want my family members killed by lunatics on a shooting spree.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 03:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
Not only are advocate's comments irrelevant to the thread topic, they're also highly disingenuous. My late wife worked as a nanny in Israel in the 80s, all the expat girls had horror stories about the IDF. That's where the real threat of rape lay, they all felt safer in the Arab quarters.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 10:07 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You are absolutely correct that I give no credit to the so-called Right of Return.

This is clearly a ploy to dissolve Israel from within, and one which Israel and anyone not unquestionably wedded (for whatever reason) to Palestinian extremism will, sanely, reject.



Regardless of the rationalizations of "dissolving Israel from within," and "Palestinian extremism" whatever all of that means, the Palestinians' Right of Return is both moral and legal, Zionist ethnocentric extremism, nothwithstanding.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 10:37 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
This is clearly a ploy to dissolve Israel from within,


The same "ploy" being used by people of Mexican descent to reclaim the southwest, Finn? What would your recommendation be to prevent this?

How about another Holocaust? You approve of these things just to help US business steal from others.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 01:29 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
This is clearly a ploy to dissolve Israel from within,


The same "ploy" being used by people of Mexican descent to reclaim the southwest, Finn? What would your recommendation be to prevent this?

How about another Holocaust? You approve of these things just to help US business steal from others.


Your reply is really silly, as well as being a non sequitur. The Pals are requesting legal immigration to Israel for all Pals, even those who never lived in Israel. There is no such request by Mexicans. Moreover, the USA will continue to expel all illegal immigrants from Mexico or anywhere else.
JTT
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 02:00 pm
@Advocate,
Harvard University professor Samuel P. Huntington stated in 2004 that:
“ Demographically, socially and culturally, the reconquista of the Southwest United States by Mexico is well under way. No other immigrant group in U.S. history has asserted or could assert a historical claim to U.S. territory. Mexicans and Mexican-Americans can and do make that claim.[1][2]

According to the United States Census Bureau, as of 2009 and 2010, six out of seven U.S. states with highest proportions of people of Mexican origin were in the Southwestern United States, including the seven modern-day states that used to be part of Mexico - California (30%), Arizona (25.9%), New Mexico (28.7%), Texas (31.6%), Nevada (20%), Colorado (15.1%), and Utah (9.4%).

Quote:
The Pals are requesting legal immigration to Israel for all Pals, even those who never lived in Israel.


And Israelis from across the globe, ones who have never lived in Palestine, are moving there.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2013 08:58 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Harvard University professor Samuel P. Huntington stated in 2004 that:
“ Demographically, socially and culturally, the reconquista of the Southwest United States by Mexico is well under way. No other immigrant group in U.S. history has asserted or could assert a historical claim to U.S. territory. Mexicans and Mexican-Americans can and do make that claim.[1][2]

According to the United States Census Bureau, as of 2009 and 2010, six out of seven U.S. states with highest proportions of people of Mexican origin were in the Southwestern United States, including the seven modern-day states that used to be part of Mexico - California (30%), Arizona (25.9%), New Mexico (28.7%), Texas (31.6%), Nevada (20%), Colorado (15.1%), and Utah (9.4%).

Quote:
The Pals are requesting legal immigration to Israel for all Pals, even those who never lived in Israel.


And Israelis from across the globe, ones who have never lived in Palestine, are moving there.


Um, who said otherwise? Indeed, there is the gradual defacto take over of the SW by Mexicans. Again, this is quite a bit different from the demand by the Pals of a "right of return" by all Pals, even those who never set foot in Israel.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 08:20 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:

The Protocols were proven to be a forgery, possibly authored by the Czars secret police, I've read. But, in what context can Russia possibly be called Zionist? Are you making a joke? Have you not seen Fiddler On the Roof, which captured the adversary relationship between Russian Jews and the Czarist regime? Do tell.


Sorry you're right, I meant to type Czarist Russia, (all that Z sound got me mixed up)I didn't realise that it had slipped through. The thing about the Protocols, is that despite being proven to be a forgery, far right groups still quote it today


Don't forget many Catholics still think of Jews collectively as Christ Killers.
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 08:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It may be anecdotal to you, but most Muslims are peace loving people who live all over this globe including Europe, India, Central Asia, Indonesia, and the US.



Quite correct; however, no Christians in different lands are rebelling against Muslim majorities to have their own independent areas. Also, like there's no equivalent to Sharia law in Christian doctrine.

For some odd reason (read sarcastic) Christian young males seem to find productive endeavors, rather than turning into rebellious behavior against society, based on their religion?

Please do not trivialize the contribution to civilized living that Christianity has made, by implying that Muslim jihad behavior is as normal as other societal norms.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 08:36 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You are absolutely correct that I give no credit to the so-called Right of Return.

This is clearly a ploy to dissolve Israel from within, and one which Israel and anyone not unquestionably wedded (for whatever reason) to Palestinian extremism will, sanely, reject.



Regardless of the rationalizations of "dissolving Israel from within," and "Palestinian extremism" whatever all of that means, the Palestinians' Right of Return is both moral and legal, Zionist ethnocentric extremism, nothwithstanding.


Those that would want a Right of Return are related to those that had a Right of Leaving. Apparently, someone in their family did not like the new State of Israel, and thought they should leave. They voted with their feet for posterity apparently. Now they want "backsies," like girls playing hopscotch?
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 08:36 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
Don't forget many Catholics still think of Jews collectively as Christ Killers.


Wasn't this god's plan for his kid? If Jews were responsible, wouldn't they simply have been helping god carry out his plan?

Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 08:40 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Harvard University professor Samuel P. Huntington stated in 2004 that:
“ Demographically, socially and culturally, the reconquista of the Southwest United States by Mexico is well under way. No other immigrant group in U.S. history has asserted or could assert a historical claim to U.S. territory. Mexicans and Mexican-Americans can and do make that claim.[1][2]

According to the United States Census Bureau, as of 2009 and 2010, six out of seven U.S. states with highest proportions of people of Mexican origin were in the Southwestern United States, including the seven modern-day states that used to be part of Mexico - California (30%), Arizona (25.9%), New Mexico (28.7%), Texas (31.6%), Nevada (20%), Colorado (15.1%), and Utah (9.4%).

Quote:
The Pals are requesting legal immigration to Israel for all Pals, even those who never lived in Israel.


And Israelis from across the globe, ones who have never lived in Palestine, are moving there.


You are adding apples to oranges. Mexicans are Christian. They can assimilate into a country with a large Christian population, that has no state religion. However, Israel, by definition, is a Zionist State, so Muslims may never feel that Israel is their country, even if they live there?

The intent of Mexicans is to assimilate into America, regardless of the language spoken. What is, or would be, the intent of returning decendants of Palestinians that left in 1948? Assimilation or take over?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 08:43 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie, You are really uninformed about the history of Israel and the Palestinian people.

This is from Wiki.
Quote:
October 1948 – March 1949
This period of the exodus was characterized by Israeli military accomplishments; Operation Yoav, in October, this cleared the road to the Negev, culminating in the capture of Beersheba; Operation Hiram, at the end of October, resulted in the capture of the Upper Galilee; Operation Horev in December 1948 and Operation Uvda in March 1949, completed the capture of the Negev (the Negev had been allotted to the Jewish State by the United Nations) these operations were met with resistance from the Palestinian Arabs who were to become refugees. The Israeli military activities were confined to the Galilee and the sparsely populated Negev desert. It was clear to the villages in the Galilee, that if they left, return was far from imminent. Therefore, far fewer villages spontaneously depopulated than previously. Most of the Palestinian exodus was due to a clear, direct cause: expulsion and deliberate harassment, as Morris writes 'commanders were clearly bent on driving out the population in the area they were conquering'.[10]:490
During Operation Hiram in the upper Galilee, Israeli military commanders received the order: 'Do all you can to immediately and quickly purge the conquered territories of all hostile elements in accordance with the orders issued. The residents should be helped to leave the areas that have been conquered'. (31 October 1948, Moshe Carmel) The UN's acting Mediator, Ralph Bunche, reported that United Nations Observers had recorded extensive looting of villages in Galilee by Israeli forces, who carried away goats, sheep and mules. This looting, United Nations Observers reported, appeared to have been systematic as army trucks were used for transportation. The situation, states the report, created a new influx of refugees into Lebanon. Israeli forces, he stated, have occupied the area in Galilee formerly occupied by Kaukji's forces, and have crossed the Lebanese frontier. Bunche goes on to say "that Israeli forces now hold positions inside the south-east corner of Lebanon, involving some fifteen Lebanese villages which are occupied by small Israeli detachments".[68]
According to Morris[10]:492 altogether 200,000–230,000 Palestinians left in this stage. According to Ilan Pappé, "In a matter of seven months, five hundred and thirty one villages were destroyed and eleven urban neighborhoods emptied [...] The mass expulsion was accompanied by massacres, rape and [the] imprisonment of men [...] in labor camps for periods [of] over a year".[69]


Who left "voluntarily?"

Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 08:55 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Don't forget many Catholics still think of Jews collectively as Christ Killers.


Wasn't this god's plan for his kid? If Jews were responsible, wouldn't they simply have been helping god carry out his plan?




God, if there was one, did not speak to the Sanhedrin. They were just pandering to the Romans that didn't like rebellious talkers, like Jesus.

But, in my observations, those that use the term Christ Killers use it as a pejorative, not as you are claiming it was some sort of kismet.

You reminded me of the old joke whereby a Southern Baptist minister goes to the Holy Land and visits the Wailing Wall. At the wall the minister sees a bearded old Jew praying fervently. The minister visits the Wailing Wall the next day, and again sees the old Jew praying fervently. On the third day the minister again sees the old Jew praying, but since the minister is soon leaving the Holy Land, he waits until the old Jew is finished praying and runs up to him saying, "Do you speak English?" The old Jew says, "Yes." The minister asks, "Tell me what the Jews think about Jesus?" The old Jew replies, "Jesus who?"

Get it? Judaism was already around 1500 years old when Jesus decided to promulgate his own version of his faith. So, even today, Judaism has nothing to do with Jesus. The only people that link the two are Evangelicals for the benefit of bible prophecy and anti-Semites, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2013 08:58 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Foofie, You are really uninformed about the history of Israel and the Palestinian people.

This is from Wiki.
Quote:
October 1948 – March 1949
This period of the exodus was characterized by Israeli military accomplishments; Operation Yoav, in October, this cleared the road to the Negev, culminating in the capture of Beersheba; Operation Hiram, at the end of October, resulted in the capture of the Upper Galilee; Operation Horev in December 1948 and Operation Uvda in March 1949, completed the capture of the Negev (the Negev had been allotted to the Jewish State by the United Nations) these operations were met with resistance from the Palestinian Arabs who were to become refugees. The Israeli military activities were confined to the Galilee and the sparsely populated Negev desert. It was clear to the villages in the Galilee, that if they left, return was far from imminent. Therefore, far fewer villages spontaneously depopulated than previously. Most of the Palestinian exodus was due to a clear, direct cause: expulsion and deliberate harassment, as Morris writes 'commanders were clearly bent on driving out the population in the area they were conquering'.[10]:490
During Operation Hiram in the upper Galilee, Israeli military commanders received the order: 'Do all you can to immediately and quickly purge the conquered territories of all hostile elements in accordance with the orders issued. The residents should be helped to leave the areas that have been conquered'. (31 October 1948, Moshe Carmel) The UN's acting Mediator, Ralph Bunche, reported that United Nations Observers had recorded extensive looting of villages in Galilee by Israeli forces, who carried away goats, sheep and mules. This looting, United Nations Observers reported, appeared to have been systematic as army trucks were used for transportation. The situation, states the report, created a new influx of refugees into Lebanon. Israeli forces, he stated, have occupied the area in Galilee formerly occupied by Kaukji's forces, and have crossed the Lebanese frontier. Bunche goes on to say "that Israeli forces now hold positions inside the south-east corner of Lebanon, involving some fifteen Lebanese villages which are occupied by small Israeli detachments".[68]
According to Morris[10]:492 altogether 200,000–230,000 Palestinians left in this stage. According to Ilan Pappé, "In a matter of seven months, five hundred and thirty one villages were destroyed and eleven urban neighborhoods emptied [...] The mass expulsion was accompanied by massacres, rape and [the] imprisonment of men [...] in labor camps for periods [of] over a year".[69]


Who left "voluntarily?"




I've read other versions, including that Israeli trucks with speakers were telling the Arab villagers to stay and be citizens of Israel. In today's climate, I do not trust everything I read.
 

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