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Lib Dem British MP Castigates Israel

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 10:40 am
@Advocate,
History tells us they can all live in relative peace in that area...if the state of Israel were not there.

Despite this...I never hear you utter a single word of criticism of the existence of the state of Israel in that spot.

InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 11:09 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You, like Izzy are tilting at a straw man.

If the Jewish experience with the Holocaust should cause them to adopt a non-violent approach to others, why shouldn't the Palestinian's experience do the same?

You and others on this thread can't have it both ways: Jews should be non-violent because of the violence they have experienced, but Palestinian violence is justified by the violence they have experienced.

More precisely, the "Jewish" expericence with the Holocaust should cause them to adopt a non-oppression approach to others.

Zionist oppression against the Palestinian peoples began as discriminatory national policies pursued by the British and other European governments on behalf of the Zionist colonizers in Palestine following the first world war. These policies were non-violent.
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 11:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

History tells us they can all live in relative peace in that area...if the state of Israel were not there.


My daughter's best friend is a Sephardic Jew whose parents emigrated to the UK from Israel when the Zionists established themselves. He does not have a good word to say for the state of Israel, his family suffered racial discrimination at the hands of the Zionists who only consider you a proper Jew if you're pale skinned.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 11:24 am
@Advocate,
Yes, because no matter how much evidence and fact we present to show the atrocities perpetrated by the Jews against the Palestinians, it doesn't sink into the Zionist's brain.

I tire of all forms of discrimination. It's because I personally experienced discrimination in the US before, during, and after WWII. I'm third generation American, and was told by many whites to "return to your own country." Where was I supposed to go? Since then, I've seen discrimination against other minorities and women. It never seems to improve. Why is it that women still don't earn the same wages as men doing the same jobs? Why are blacks, Hispanics, gays and lesbians still discriminated against?

Yes, I've experience discrimination, and it's full of idiocy, stupidity, and ignorance. You guys don't seem to comprehend the lives it ruins with your "superior" attitude of "we can take as many Palestinian's property, because we have more military might than them."

Learn a little humility and humanity; then I'll quit using insults.

My insults are small compared to your Zionist attitude against another group of people.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 11:43 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You guys don't seem to comprehend the lives it ruins with your "superior" attitude of "we can take as many Palestinian's property, because we have more military might than them."


Good point, CI. How come it's lost on so many, and not just those with zionist tendencies?

Know what I mean?

Why does Advocate recognize it for the USA but not for Israel? Why does Advocate give a liar like Oralloy a free pass on his lies - just because he supports Advocate in his lies about Israel?

Why do you all give each other and your governments so many free passes considering just how evil their acts have been?

It's mind boggling, isn't it?

Obviously a rhetorical question, CI, because you are also too cowardly to face up to these issues. Yet, you're in there pitchin' against Israeli crimes against humanity. Some might see that as hypocrisy, but at least you're trying.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 12:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
To expand on what the Zionists are doing in Israel against the Palestinians, they suffer from having no conscience against moral injuries against others.

Quote:
I'm a monster': Veterans 'alone' in their guilt
By PAULINE JELINEK | Associated Press – 4 hrs ago.. .

WASHINGTON (AP) — A veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, former Marine Capt. Timothy Kudo thinks of himself as a killer — and he carries the guilt every day.

"I can't forgive myself," he says. "And the people who can forgive me are dead."

With American troops at war for more than a decade, there's been an unprecedented number of studies into war zone psychology and an evolving understanding of post-traumatic stress disorder. Clinicians suspect some troops are suffering from what they call "moral injuries" — wounds from having done something, or failed to stop something, that violates their moral code.


Think about this if it's possible.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 01:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Israelis should have no problem with bad consciences. They kill (relatively very few) in defense of their country and fellow citizens. This is a far cry from the wanton murders by the Arabs.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 02:08 pm
@Advocate,
This url shows the casualties of Jews and Arabs since 1920 to 2012, and it's produced by the "JewishVirtualLibrary.org."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualtiestotal.html

In 2012:
Quote:
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Palestinian civilian death toll mounted Monday as Israeli aircraft struck densely populated areas in the Gaza Strip in a campaign to quell militant rocket fire menacing nearly half of Israel's population.

An overnight airstrike on two houses belonging to an extended clan in Gaza City killed two children and two adults, and injured 42 people, said Gaza heath official Ashraf al-Kidra.

Shortly after, Israeli aircraft bombarded the remains of the former national security compound in Gaza City. Flying shrapnel killed one child and wounded others living nearby, al-Kidra said. Five farmers were killed in two separate strikes, al-Kidra said, including three who had been identified earlier by Hamas security officials as Islamic Jihad fighters.

Civilian casualties began to shoot up on Sunday, after Israel said it was stepping up attacks on the homes of suspected Hamas activists. After that warning, an Israeli missile flatted a two-story house in a residential area of Gaza City, killing at least 11 civilians, most of them women and children.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 02:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
"moral injuries" -- wounds from having done something, or failed to stop something, that violates their moral code[/b].

Think about this if it's possible.


I have a relative who was in RAF Bomber Command during World War II, participated in a thousand-bomber raid on Cologne; he got a medal; he suffers from what I can only call 'moral wounds'. He is by no means unique. I guess each generation has to learn this anew.

0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 02:41 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Israelis should have no problem with bad consciences. They kill (relatively very few) in defense of their country and fellow citizens. This is a far cry from the wanton murders by the Arabs.


I think maybe Advocate is not so much like Reinhard Heydrich; he is much more like Julius Streicher.

http://der-stuermer.org/julius_streicher1.jpg
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 03:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You take an example from the pages of US war crimes/terrorism to point up Israeli atrocities, CI?

And then you address this,

"Think about this if it's possible"

only to those who make excuses for Israel's drop in the bucket crimes in comparison to the US's.

What's wrong here?

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 06:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Yes, because no matter how much evidence and fact we present to show the atrocities perpetrated by the Jews against the Palestinians, it doesn't sink into the Zionist's brain.



How come you don't refer to the Palestinians as Moslems? Yet, the Israelis are referred to as Jews (their religious affiliation in a Zionist State)?

cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2013 07:06 pm
@Foofie,
You are free to call them "Moslems, Arabs, or Palestinians." The Zionist state is the "reality" of Israel. They are the ones who started the intifada.

From Wiki.
Quote:
In the early 1990s there began to appear articles by Israeli academicians who referred to themselves as post-Zionists; this was mostly in the aftermath of a lengthy public discussion on the issues surrounding the events of the War of Independence, attributed to the New Historians. The public mood in the aftermath of the Oslo Accords, which presumed that the Arab-Israeli conflict was nearing a conclusion, contributed even more to the development of this tendency. Since the start of the Second Intifada, public mood has changed tremendously, and as many perceive,[who?] the post-Zionist tendency has been in retreat.

On the other hand, post-Zionist historians were accused of adopting the Palestinian narrative without any doubts and of demonizing and delegitimizing Israel and Zionism.

In contrast to political Zionism's goal of the Jewish state, many post-Zionists advocate the evolution of Israel into a non-ideological, secular, liberal democratic state, to be officially neither Jewish nor Arab in character.

Post-Zionism has been criticized as a polite recasting of anti-Zionism, and therefore a deceptive term.[1] Some right-wing Israelis have accused Jewish post-Zionists of being self-hating Jews.[2]


We all know a secular Israel is never going to happen.
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Why should Israel be completely securlar. None of the Muslim countries are, or even close to being that.

Israel was established as a home for the Jews, rightly so considering that the Jews have been de facto or de jure driven out of so many countries.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:31 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Israel was established as a home for the Jews, rightly so considering that the Jews have been de facto or de jure driven out of so many countries.


What about Native Americans [no, this does not mean you, Setanta!], Advocate?

Quote:
Israel was established as a home for the Jews


Precisely. An artificial country, partly, to make guilt ridden folks feel better and partly, more messing by the UK and the US in other peoples lives and wealth.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:32 pm
@Advocate,
You're agreeing with me! Or, maybe, you don't comprehend English too well.
Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 06:07 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
securlar


Hi, Julius. Nuremberg approaches.

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 06:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

To expand on what the Zionists are doing in Israel against the Palestinians, they suffer from having no conscience against moral injuries against others.



Or vice versa:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130222121051.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fhealth_medicine+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Health+%26+Medicine+News%29
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 06:58 pm
@Foofie,
You're kidding, right? Who's talking about "miscarriages?" We're talking about innocent Palestinians killed vs Jews killed - as the direct result of bombings. You're trying to equate "miscarriages" with all the innocent children killed by the Jews?

Get real!
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 07:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You're kidding, right? Who's talking about "miscarriages?" We're talking about innocent Palestinians killed vs Jews killed - as the direct result of bombings. You're trying to equate "miscarriages" with all the innocent children killed by the Jews?

Get real!


I was showing that rockets fired into Israel are not benign noisemakers. Since you are not raising a family in Israel, you might not commiserate with the Israelis losing a future family member? But, it is really outside of the hands of the U.S.. Israel will eventually do something; what I do not know, nor care, since I only really care about Americans, especially those that aren't alienated from our society.
 

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