Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

Good response. Thanks for bringing more common sense opinion about what's been happening on this case, and questioning the media's reporting of it.

Thank you providing that link to documentation for what I also suspected could be a contributing factor . e.g. a prescription for a medication that might be the slippery slope for someone to have a personality shift that could be profound......as in violent.

His Asperger Syndrome affliction is clearly a factor in the 'why' this tragedy spun out of control but not directly. It's not a red herring at alll; however, Asperger Syndrome is not a cause by any means.

Can there be a national discussion on what percentage of gun ownership reflects a "gun culture," rather than the desire to protect one's home and family?

Analogous to the country's car culture, people buy cars for more than transportation. It represents a definition, many times, of their persona.

So, shooting a gun, owning a gun, owning a semi-automatic gun, means more many times than protection, for many people. In my opinion, it can be wrapped up in Doomsday beliefs, male bonding identity issues, macho identity issues, social class issues, in addition to the basic issue of personal protection for oneself, and one's family.

In my opinion again, it is almost as thought there is a collective memory, in a segment of society, that remembers distant ancestors wondering if tomorrow a marauding army/band will be coming over the nearby hill to rape and pillage? Well, for the most part, the gunowners of today, who want to protect their Second Amendment rights, had ancestors in Europe, and ironically a majority of Europeans today have no such paranoia? Is it due to our balkanized society, where in rural America some might think that some of the denizens of other burbs will one day come to rape and pillage?

In other words, the gun advocates should be more candid as to what motivates their great desire for gun ownership. I believe it is beyond the concerns for protection against a home burglar, since today's alarm systems can stop a home burglar, unless one lives totally isolated.

I tend to believe there is a narrative here, about why are guns so necessary that might be politcally incorrect to state; however, that might be necessary to get to inorder to understand why gun advocates are so emphatic in their needs. Are the needs real, or imagined? And, if real, real enough for the need for semi-automatic weapons, and large clips?

It is unrealistic for any expectation (based on him having Asperger Syndrome and not being particularly communicative to others exclusive of the mother...and particularly about his feelings) for Adam speaking to someone about these issues? Why would you even suggest that? You're creating a proof scenario that is not likely to prove useful or possible.

This well documented report that a close family friend was spoken to by the mother is plausible and has more credibility than you are giving credit.

I recognize the need to sift out and cut down on the irresponsible and misleading speculations; however this is not in that category, IMHO.

@ all

This early days article is one I saved so I have some idea of possibilities besides or in addition to aspergers affecting (no, I don't say causing) the situation. It might interest some of you.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/diagnosing-adam-lanza/266322/

backing up a bit..the link you provided to the Natural Society ...you recognize has an (big pharma) axe to grind, don't you? Is this lead really that credible?

Reporting well done, Osso. Very useful for adding some clarity.

That last paragraph on the Atlantic Monthly aeticle I find interesting:

"The combination of a flat affect, analgesia, social avoidance, autism-like features, and premeditated violence defies obvious categorization. Like so many out there with unknowable illnesses, Lanza may have had a case of the NOS, or "not otherwise specified," psychiatric shorthand for an undiagnosable illness. Undiagnosable, however, is not tantamount to untreatable -- which, ultimately, is why any of this diagnostic speculation even matters. The hope is that Lanza's doctors and treatment records can help shed light on what might have gone wrong, and what we can do to prevent future massacres. "

I keep seeing things like "premeditated" and "planned" but I'm not quite sure of how anyone knows this.

Why is everyone so sure he planned this? What am I missing?

Not just Natural Society, but Business insider as well.
http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12#ixzz2FRTv1sXp

Stop being so gullible and believing everything you read about Adam Lanza's recent mental or emotional state, or alleged medications he was on.

There is no evidence he was on Fanapt, or on any other medication at the time of the shootings.

New York Magazine has already retracted the info regarding Fanapt because the source, who either claimed to be Adam's uncle, or claimed he got the information from the uncle, may have been an impostor. The New York Daily News reported the same thing.


There are no credible sources giving reliable or valid information about this young man's emotional or mental state, or his behavior, or his level of functioning, just prior to the shooting, and a considerable amount of misinformation is being reported. I complained about this in my post on the previous page of this thread, and I think everyone should have a great degree of skepticism when it comes to believing any of it.

Adam Lanza had no social contacts outside of his home, not even with his brother or father (who are both in seclusion now), so no one, who's been talking to reporters, was really observing him first hand. In addition, Nancy Lanza doesn't seem to have had really close friends, or they are remaining silent, and the sources for information about her are either "unidentified" or casual acquaintances, and she didn't discuss her son, or her homelife, or her son's recent condition, with those people. She did have family, in New Hampshire, with whom she might have shared those things, but they are not speaking publicly about any of this.

So I haven't found any credible source of information about this young man's recent mental state, or behaviors, or possible psychiatric treatment, or specific management/behavioral problems he might have displayed. Either none of the info is at all recent, or it doesn't come from a first hand source with sufficient credibility.

As far as we know, there is no evidence he had problems with aggression or violence prior to last week. Asperger's is not typically associated with violence.

If he had been in psychiatric treatment, or on medication, there would have to be a psychiatrist with knowledge of those things--the one who was treating him. Thus far, no person like that has come forward to make any public statement. If there is such a person, they might have spoken to law enforcement, but law enforcement has said nothing of that nature as of yet.

And we just don't know whether Nancy Lanza was or wasn't a good parent, or whether she was managing her son's problems in an appropriate manner prior to this tragedy. Yes, she did have all those guns in the house. But we don't know whether she had locked them in a secure cabinet, which Adam might have broken into, or whether she carelessly left them unsecured. Even the law enforcement officer who gave a press conference yesterday, could not answer that question, although information about that is already likely known but is being kept confidential right now.

It does appear that Nancy Lanza went to New Hampshire for 2 1/2 days last week, leaving her son alone in the house. That information has so far not been retracted. That would have given him time to possibly break into a secured gun cabinet without being detected. She returned home Thursday evening, and he shot her Friday morning while she was still in bed. If those guns had been locked up, but he somehow managed to get them, she might have never learned about that. If the guns were left unsecured, the police will eventually release that information, but until then we won't know for sure.

And, if his mother left him home alone for 2 1/2 days last week, she couldn't have been all that concerned about his emotional or mental state or his behavior. Nothing suggests she was so negligent a parent that she would go on a mini-vacation and knowingly leave a seriously disturbed son home alone.

Business insider reported the update as well.

There could be, Foofie, and maybe there should be. I also kind of like your comparison to the car culture.

The question addressed was your statement of facts. You came up short.

well,..he was dressed or wore a bullet proof vest...that's part of a thought-out plan ..not random..as he knew the consequences of what might happen with this shooting spree..he had awareness of a potential deterrent to what he planned ...took lots of supplies of ammo...he worked out some logistics. How else can you carry out such an involved shooting spree?

That was premeditation in my book. How about yours?

He also broke his computer hard drive as if he was trying to cover up something.

Thanks, that makes sense.

I guess "premeditated" can mean 5 minutes before though I don't tend to think of it that way.

Most of these kinds of shooters do plan for a long while. The Oregon shooter didn't. We don't know about this guy. I suppose the simple fact that they took a gun and drove a car somewhere means premeditated.

And that is proof of ... what exactly? Yes, it means something..but it is unclear at this time...exactly what it means. Who knows if he was trying to hide something from his Mom? And, if so, what that meant in the scheme of things?

What Firefly is rightly indicating..is try to think as a juror might ... not like an Enquirer reader.

yup. agreed.

Premeditated means he would have formed an intention prior to committing the act--that could be an intention to kill formulated as little as a minute before committing the act.

So, even if he had a fight with his mother, and immediately ran into another room and got a gun, for the purpose of killing her, and then shot her, the act would be premeditated, although not necessarily planned out in advance.

That's not quite the same as something done in the heat of passion--like a really explosive argument with his mother, where he was literally in such a blind rage he wasn't thinking straight, and he impulsively picked up a gun and shot her.

We actually don't know whether the murder of the mother was premeditated. If she slept with a gun next to her bed, he might have impulsively picked it up and shot her during a very heated argument. Although given the rampage at the school that followed, my guess would be that it was premeditated.

Planned means the sort of things Ragman mentioned, things which indicated he had thought out what he was going to do, made necessary preparations to carry out the plan, went to a specific place to carry it out, etc. The shootings at the school seem definitely planned--he went there with guns and ammo, intending to use them, and use them he did.
He may not have planned exactly who he wanted to shoot, but he went there to use his guns.

Exactly. Jurors must consider the credibility of the witnesses providing information in order to determine whether to believe them.

Jurors hear witnesses regarding physical evidence in a case--law enforcement has told us only that he smashed the computer, but they haven't told you why he smashed it. Maybe he had a problem with the computer, got frustrated and angry, and impulsively smashed it.

Did he smash up other things in the house, like furniture, as well? Did his mother have a computer? Did he smash that up too? We don't know what other things he might have smashed up as well, or why.